iiinova — where your digital self keeps evolving

Replies

George Monbiot @georgemonbiot.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

1. I’m thinking aloud here, as I really don’t have the answers. This is a thread about the political challenge of the very large numbers of young men now supporting the far right. I’m writing it without blame or derision. I’m just trying to find a way through. 🧵

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Paul Wynter @paulsnotxstream.bsky.social · 27/11/2024

I think it comes down to media spin, its easier to be a darling of the media if your a farage (saying outrageous things gets headlines) than it is if your a corbyn (socialism sounds just to sensible) so how does anybody talking sense get enough news coverage in the age of memes.

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Jailhouse @jailhouse-dog.bsky.social · 27/11/2024

So we steal from the opposition playbook: "Tax those with more than you into oblivion." That should do it.

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Mateo Chacón Pino @theclimateofart.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I see two possibilities: a) the strenghtening of a democratic-conservative voice that works as a bullwark against the far-right and b) the broad development and discussion of a positive (white) masculinity in harmony with feminist/black/poc emancipation = new role models.

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The Voice of Reason. @garretthide319.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

We are caught in a vicious circle. Young men feel disillusioned. All caused by lack of secure, decently paid employment. It is the result of greed & the capitalist engine. Companies make extra-ordinary profits but are driving down wages & avoiding taxes. It will be their ultimate downfall.

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Lucy Lepchani @lucylepchani.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

They're groomed. It's easy to be unaware of grooming in action, it's subtle, clandestine. But reward/punishment reinforcement of behaviour can be deployed anywhere. All those "Tommys" being generous in the pub/online. See B.F. Skinner, Operant conditioning, especially variable-ratio reward.

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Lucy Lepchani @lucylepchani.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Lonely, socially awkward, poor and 'outsider' others are easily groomed by someone who's friendly, generous with the cash and inclusive in the pub. Then, it isn't easy to leave a scene where belonging feels easy. Pack mentality is a real. Grooming in prison, too - belonging as a way to survive.

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Feisty1 @fiesty1.bsky.social · 01/12/2024

📌

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Ms M 💚🌱💙🦊🌳🦔🌸🐞🧶♾️ @themorganic.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I’m jumping in before I see your thoughts. I once lived in Tamworth, where asylum hotel was attacked. Poor school support for those who learn differently. Few employment opportunities. Under investment & very insulated ‘white’ population. Has been prime target of right wing parties for years.

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His Royal Huwness 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🐸🇵🇸🇪🇺 @litterygeniarse.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

It is vital that we reclaim a free press. Labour have not cleared the far-right propagandists out of the BBC and are ignoring reform. Unless they tackle that they ARE part of the problem. If the media is not fair then need grassroots built up old style.

UK Press Regulation
No foreign owners
No ownership of multiple media outlets
No non-dom owners
no tax-evading owners
Retractions to be same size/duration/prominence/repeats as original lie/error

"THose who would impose fascism first control the means of propaganda" - Cassander

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Stuart 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇪🇺🇳🇱🎨🎣🤓💻🎸 @stuartbladen.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

I think many good reasons have been given here, but I’d emphasise the emotional ones. The right have learned that fear, hate, and blaming other people all invoke much more powerful emotions in our isolated youth than community spirit, compassion, tolerance etc. That why this is sticking in our young

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beajea.bsky.social @beajea.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

What data are you looking at? Exit polls show people 45+ were the biggest Trump voters, also men 30+. This squares with facebook’s audience age & far right bent. That said, I do think it’s important to avoid right wing radicalization of young people before beliefs become entrenched.

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Gemma Freeman @gemmmafree.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

They're just foot soldiers. The manipulation happens in the videos they watch. A vast amount of money has gone into creating a huge bloc of unthinking right wing chauvinist dickheads.

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David Poe @culthero12.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I think this is the churn of patriarchy. Patriarchy doesn't mean rule by men like most think but specifically rule by fathers. The process of indoctrinating and separating new patriarchs from the mere men generates chaff. Mix that with incapacity for expression or managing trauma and here we are.

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Mihai Alevra @scimihai.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

One can currently see it in rural parts of eastern Germany, where after the well-educated young women have left for jobs in the west and the cities, a lot of frustrated men are lost to extremists rights - who tell them „be a real man, then you’ll get a girlfriend“. Hopeless without education.

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Beth Ryan 🇨🇦 (she/her) @beryan.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

📌 Excellent thread, thank you

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Lynn @lynnwalker.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

The problem is not helped by the fact they won't be reading anything in this this jolly nice bubble of civility. How to get through in the rabbit holes that so many are already so far down, and the motives of those that they are following there is a problem it is hard to see a way through.

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Brian K Gruber @briankgruber.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

I think all that makes sense and love me some George M but hey when exactly wasn’t it difficult to carve out a career and financial security. Or buy a first home. Or get laid. Or find purpose. I am empathetic with all that George suggests. But also ain’t it a moral choice to embrace fascism?

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GemmaGem @tippytaff.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Thank you all for this wonderful thread.

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Hetty (arty) @indyhetty.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

When u have a wee gap, someone will fill it..usually not in agood way.

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Duncan Jones @manmademoon.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Unfortunately, I believe the greatest generation was the anchor the living needed to not drift into fascism. They had been through it, fought it, understood where it leads and were present enough to hold back that tide. Without them, we are goldfish and may tragically need to relearn those lessons.

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Adam Akerman @adamakerman.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Can't we club together and hot-house young gym bunnies into lefties, similar to the RW do?

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Ken Oh ☄️☄️ @revenge-of-ken-oh.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

The far left are doing more to drive young men to the right than anyone else. Of course they will never engage in any form of introspection, or countenance the notion that they could be wrong about anything, so I fully expect this trend to continue

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Coach Pete @coach-pete.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

A fairly simplistic response George, but the huge drop in participation in communal & voluntary activities (such as sports) has contributed to this isolation, the inability to empathise, and a rise in mental health issues. Our volunteer sector plays a massive role in helping young adults mature.

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Nora Mae @noramae.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Once the shift males saw women winning while they struggle. Rogan and MAGA, saw this and it spoke to men. Many study’s have been done on current males not going to higher education. Look at the alarming number of male vs female MD acceptance rates. I don’t think it’s 1 particular reason but many

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Nora Mae @noramae.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

The pendulum shifted. It became a perceived girls/womens world. In grade school girls were picked over guys. Guys can’t look at girls or they accused of things. College women a selected over males for various student roles reason for this because those in charge of selection don’t want labeled.

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Nita Noor @nitanoorad.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

📌

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Tea With Soy @teawithsoy.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I’m a therapist and have worked with a lot of young men. I definitely feel the isolation of Covid, the lack of mental health support and the selling off of school playing fields are 3 things that could be ameliorated. As for the “warrior” pose, that could be seen as the heroic protector not villain

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Matt Donnelly @colddatamatt.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

"Intersectional analysis shows that White males eligible for free school meals are less likely to go to higher education than any other groups..." commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-bri...

commonslibrary.parliament.uk

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bainseo.bsky.social @bainseo.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

The ineffectiveness of the left to unify and articulate simple but effective solutions is a major factor. On the other side of the coin, the right have become very adept at using the internet/podcasts etc to send clear concise political content under the guise of masculinity (Joe Rogan et al)

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Reynard the Fox @reynardfox.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

It's a hard time to be a man. Our voices & opinions are ignored and this manifests into dangerous outlets.

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Steve Read @stevereadsydney.eurosky.social · 24/11/2024

Fundamental to this is growing inequality where more and more of the economic gains go to those who already have, leaving those who don’t on an treadmill whereby change, any change, is seen as more attractive - despite the risk - than an hopeless continuation

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Alan Rankin @grandadalan.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

It’s hard to think, and easy to feel. For many, their future seems to be very different from what they thought it would be. The induced feelings of uncertainty, displacement and disappointment are more susceptible to instant reactions than progressive contemplation.

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curiouskittyk.bsky.social @curiouskittyk.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

There’s certainly a shift occurring in the U.K. and US amongst young men and boys. Whilst its right to champion women rights and LGBTQ rights, the way it’s being perceived by young men/boys is that it’s at their expense. There’s an urgent need to connect with the young men/boys but with empathy.

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Andy B @sheffieldskate.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Give them some hope. Give them a world where they don't have to live pay cheque to pay cheque

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Rein @reindermd.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I think you’re on the money here. On top of this, the issue is that the left, broadly speaking, is not willing to play it dirty. There are some smaller examples of those who do, elsewhere - types like Sander Schimmelpenninck in NL.

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welladriansays.bsky.social @welladriansays.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

The far right have always successfully targeted young men. And it’s easy for the media to point at Andrew Tate. In part because it absolves them of Jeremy Clarkson and GQ and lad culture. Or Jimmy Carrs “hilarious” rape jokes and Ricky Gervais shouting “mong”. The mainstream British media led the

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Marsha Coupé @marshacoupe.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

My two cents worth. We become what we consume. The gaming industry and internet are largely created by young men, for young men. There's a ton of violence/misogyny in gaming/online. Lots of young men have been consuming this garbage all their lives. Sadly, many have become what they consumed.

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Si @squeakysneaker.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Social media does a lot to drive this trend too. I have teenage son and his views are definitely trending right, bringing up the same talking points you'll find online. Tiktok in particular pushes a lot of it

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Trout in Plaid @troutinplaid.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

This brings to mind the long gone, original Boy Scout movement at turn of the century which attempted to channel negative juvenile male energy into self discipline, service, skills, nature (call of the wild/woodcraft), and actually appropriated Indigenous knowledge with quasi-mystical initiations.

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Sustainable Us @havantenviro.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

The left lost the plot regarding the far right at least 20 years ago. Initially the far right didn't have a clue about the WWW or being online, the left naively considered it their domain. I could see trouble coming and the left just ignored the progress the far right was making.

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adichotomyofone @jasonlee.adichotomy.com · 25/11/2024

Truth is, there’s no exit strategy. Young people are progressive in some numbers, so are some old folks. And on we go… this victory is hollow, as they seem to be only interested in themselves and that’s just not how any of this works. Meaning comes through the other, always has, always will.

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Brian Morans @whpshw.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Chris Evans’ Cap America is a good example of positive masculinity. Men want to be protectors, seen as reliable & honest. Instead of requiring men to be chatty & outgoing to demonstrate “wokeness,” we should make room for them to be stoic & chivalrous without coding those qualities as patriarchal.

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big-simon-king.bsky.social @big-simon-king.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

My take is that the far right provide a clear, simple explanation and someone to blame. We on the left tend to say “it’s complicated” and be all inclusive. When life is going to **** straightforward solutions are very compelling. Unless we learn and adapt I fear we’ll lose to simple answers

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MJ Smiles @misajoy.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

You know who broke through to a lot of them 9 years ago? Bespectacled Bernie Sanders. DNC dismissed his popularity & said, full throated, we don't care, we get to decide. A lot of the young men — same ones dismissed as Bernie Bros — got disillusioned with the Dems and I can't blame them.

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Morgan K. Bell @morgankbell.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I’ve often wondered if it’s because stuff like self-improvement and personal achievement are increasingly considered right-coded, while on the left it’s barely tolerated if not outright demonized. Think like anything from physical fitness to technological invention. (1/3)

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RobertColumba. @robertcolumba.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

As Gramschi noted a while back: "The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters". I don't know of any legend or story that ends with the monsters victorious. The way through is by lighting up the path of hope, for who wishes to follow the trail of despair

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jack-a-nory.bsky.social @jack-a-nory.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Mebbe because many of these young men are under tge illusion they will achieve power and authority. They couldn't be more wrong!

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Claudio Cesarano @clacesarano.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I find this a very thoughtful analysis of how the Right is forcefully designing and promoting a "manhood crisis" for political gains youtu.be/kf5i2cc6-JY?...

youtu.be

How the Right is Winning Young Men

YouTube video by matt bernstein

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Marchog Gwyrdd 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🏳️‍🌈 @marchogg.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Yeah, it's weird but my 21 year old son has quite right wing views and I am certain it is because he gets all his political content from YouTube.

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Ben Cribbin (Rosaries) @rosaries.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I was a Jordan Peterson fan in 2018. Me too, BLM, and anti trump feeling created an environment where a lot of my social circle saw fit to denigrate white men on a regular basis. I constantly heard about how privileged I was. I felt isolated and resentful and Peterson's words were like...

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Joost @joostishere.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I think @femi-oluwole.bsky.social is a good example of an inspiring young person. But I’m not what age profile his followers are.

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Stephen Murray @stemurray.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I suspect a lot of young men are reacting to being told they, by virtue of their gender, are toxic; that they are privileged but look at their lives and don't see any evidence of it. Perhaps the left (which I would count myself in) needs to talk to them and about them in more positive terms.

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Djoran Keil @djorankeil.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

If you're researching the manosphere, I highly recommend F.D Signifier's videos on the topic www.youtube.com/@FDSignifire

youtube.com

F.D Signifier

Come here to watch my video essays on black movies and media

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danny-salazar.bsky.social @danny-salazar.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Examples of young men who don’t skew rightward: Maxwell Frost and David Hogg.

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Sara Martín @saramartin.eurosky.social · 24/11/2024

This is due to a basic mistake: everybody has been attacking masculinity instead of patriarchy. Young men feel defensive and move to the right, which of course benefits patriarchy. The liberal left has been unable to build an attractive anti-patriarchal model of masculinity, so there you are.

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Iona Brand @mikeiona.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I would recommend the writings of George Kennan who along with Secretary of State George Marshall developed the Economic Recovery Program. The idea was that comfortable people would reject extremist politics (either Communism or Fascism).

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Mandy @mandytru.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

What more can parents and carers do to reduce the risk of right wing radicalisation? That's rarely talked about. There may be protective factors out there. We should focus more on that.

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DeClarke @declarke.bsky.social · 26/11/2024

(1) I think a chunk of this comes back (as always) to neoliberalism, which has foreclosed for these young men the option of solidarity (with each other, with anyone) and stranded them in a lonely universe of competition for scarce prizes. So their fantasies are of individual excellence and reward

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johnstumbles.bsky.social @johnstumbles.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

@threadreader.bsky.social help @threadreader.bsky.social unroll

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Angela Black @nerdybutcute.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

the depredations of neoliberalism have affected men & women, young & old - that cannot explain the rightward shift of young men. not to be That Bitch, but the obvious answer is that loss of privilege feels like an attack. young cishet men are irate that women and queers are taking "their" space. (1)

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Vincent Hannon @vincenth1.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Once the economic thinking dropped back 150-200 years with it's focus on property the results at a population level are the same. The removal of basic hope to breed. In the past the answer was War. WW1 put an end to that with it's uncontrollable ferocity, but ... .

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Lawrence MacDonald @climateboomer.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Your question about young men on the left who can speak to other young men’s anger and alienation makes me think of @michaelgreenberg, founder of @climatedefiance

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Terry Biddulph @tbiddulph.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Many of the young people I meet on the far right often seem uninformed, holding a limited and narrow perspective on the world and its complexities.

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Grayzo @grayzo11.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

It’s not only the right who prey on impressionable young men, it’s also radical Islam. What both groups do is give these men routine, a sense of identity purpose and brotherhood. Both are equally pernicious.

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ala8.bsky.social @ala8.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Either been brainwashed by the far right or are racists, i say both

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Alex Ross @wergend.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Somewhere to live. Anywhere to live. Tinyhouse with a few meters of garden, whatever, anywhere they can make a basis for their best independent life. I think.

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Ralph Dunham @ralphdunham.bsky.social · 27/11/2024

Have a word with Grayson Perry. He has a lot of views and written stuff in this space.

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Jonny Brick @countrywol.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

The year is 1935, Berlin. We know what happened next.

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Migsy29 @michaelnoller.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I don't know why you assume the UK will mimic the US. We are not the same country or culture despite sharing the same language. Many of the problems come from economic instability and inability for young people to prosper. If labour can rebalance the economy then these problems can ease.

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Daz Richardson @dazrichardson.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

I agree with much of what you say. My broken heart screams that it will get much worse before it gets better.

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joonyna.bsky.social @joonyna.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I don't know George but if you're looking for a model of masculine leftist heroism that doesn't tend Stalinist then what about George Orwell. What woukd he say about us leftists now? Can we find ourselves in the pages of the road to wiggan pier?

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Woaxster 🌳 🌎 🌻 🍉 @woaxster.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Someone once said to me, small boys are not meant to be sat at a desk for 6 hours of the day. Young men/boys have lots of energy. That needs to be channelled to a useful societal purpose. Or it won't. If you catch my drift. Capitalism, plus our abysmal education system, plus social media. MESS!

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Peter F @feenp.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

'Young men' are ripe for being 'influenced'. Should we 'control' that influence?, insulate them from 'outside' influence?... The reality is they will be influenced by the society they experience...

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Get Real it’s over. CALEXIT NOW! Support cat rescue @get-real.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

FFS

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Paul Myles @mylsey.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

The testosterone of success, the raw l win. The prize. The euphoria of the kill of game and then to the feast. The reach into our primeval nature. The potency of power with the energy of youth. The immediacy of action, not theory. Gratification now, no delay.

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Gilia capitata @giliacapitata.northsky.social · 24/11/2024

There’s a lot here, more than I could even get through, but I think any discussion of young men has to consider the $100bn gaming industry and its influence on their worldviews: globalextremism.org/post/how-the...

globalextremism.org

How The Far-Right Spreads Hate Through Gaming

After years of complaining about “wokeness,” the far-right is taking on the gaming industry with a fast-growing movement to use gaming platforms to spread hate. Here’s how they do it.

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Jonathan Clarke @jrlclarke.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

I think this is the start of an incredibly important conversation. As a parent to boys, the current situation worries me. Social media content is overwhelmingly anti-progressive and we need to consider how we deal with this. But boys falling behind in education has been happening for 40 years now.

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Simon Pearson @anticapitalistmusings.com · 24/11/2024

I often think about where young men get their political education, especially those who don’t attend university. It’s certainly not from print media or books. With the decline of factories and trade unions, those traditional spaces for political learning are largely gone.

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Corin out loud @tartancommando.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

One fundamental difference is that the far-right/populist leaders promise to bring about change. Yes most of us know they are empty promises, but they are at least promises.

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wafglobal.bsky.social @wafglobal.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Then there is always the Lysistrata plan... 🤣

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wafglobal.bsky.social @wafglobal.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

There is something called reality. None of the concerns of these young "men" will be addressed by RW populism. It is all performance art by the Broligarchy. We will lurch between extremes until we address the global wealth inequality and Climate Collapse.

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Liam O’Hare @liamohare.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Could it be they all stare endlessly at phones and are all told they are losers, by both sides. Only one side is telling them there is another way without total defenestration. The test will be as ever, how many of them want to be slaughtered defending far right ideology when it meets opposition.

be.how

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gandalf24-28.bsky.social @gandalf24-28.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

They are young, inexperienced, horny, and they don’t have a foundation of knowledge that helps them to recognise bullshit… That’s why a legal and unopposed ‘alternative facts’ media ecosystem is so dangerous to a democracy.

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Richard Schofield @richardschofield.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Has anyone thought of asking young men? I can do it the next time my son has his mates over - many of whom voted for the first time in July - Reform mostly. I’ll let you know what they say.

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Ricky Carroll @rickycarroll.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

‘Fragmentation’ The continual process The Enlightenment & Common Sense Ideology attempt to ‘fix’ Meaning(s)-‘control the narrative’ Comm Tech, Time/Space compression, increased flotsam& jetsam SS Toxic Masculinity is picking up flailing need for ‘fixed identity’ History Already Warns Us.

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James R @jecryan.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

I think part of the issue(s) is that white men (I can speak from experience as a white male who talks and listens to other white males) think/have been told that for someone else to be given something eg equality they lose something - I know that’s not true but generally they don’t see it that way

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TruthTellingGramma @truthtellinggramma.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

These disaffected young men lack the maturity to understand how their own choices are contributing to their opportunities. More are choosing to not seek education beyond high school, many live with their parents and blame everyone but themselves for their struggles.

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Jason Hanson @rokkpaw.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Hollywood has/had been a pretty consistent supplier of stories about justice and good vs bad (from It's a Wonderful Life to Cloud Atlas to Barbie) but now anyone or anything that references kindness just gets labeled "woke". I don't have answers. ☹️

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sjsblenkathra @sjsblenkathra.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

We need to go after the trillions offshore and stop the ever growing inequality, and we have to do it whilst we still can. The more unequal society becomes, the more susceptible are people and particularly young men to the siren calls of the far right. We have to offer some hope for a better future.

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eneismi.bsky.social @eneismi.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Super scary thread but thank you for writing it clearly. There is an element young men need to grow the fuck up and stop being a victim but this was a part of left wing politics for years also, the demagogues have just started talking their language, we need to combat ASAP.

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Bill Crandall @billcrandall.com · 25/11/2024

Trying the thing you posted before :). In answer to your #9, perhaps the arts? skywriter.blue/pages/george...

skywriter.blue

Reading Thread - skywriter.blue

Reading a Bluesky thread

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ilfracomber.bsky.social @ilfracomber.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Superb thread.

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Mark, was Stan on the other place. @oldmanstan.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Those at the bottom want change, so they don't embrace the centre ground. Why vote for things to stay the same? The media/elites constantly undermine the left - so they to go the right. Also the left constantly stereotypes & belittles them. The desperate aren't stupid, they have nothing to lose.

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Kinehora @kinehora.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

We let the algorithm raise a generation of young men. And men like Putin and Thiel recognized an opportunity. I’m an Xennial; my generation was mostly not raised. And then we didn’t raise our kids. But instead of MTV rotting their brains, they’ve had tailored programming pushing hard right.

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Alex Kanefsky (he/him) @alexkanefsky.bsky.social · 27/11/2024

📌

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@E @bearwithme1.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Listening to how my teenager has to circumnavigate a lot of his friends politics and the incel culture (For me a problem evolving since the 90s at least) it is quite terrifying how normal stuff has become. His own Terminology is horrific tbf. Internet 90s generation raising them.

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Kai Stokes @allamir.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

It's difficult to know a way out but there are many other countries we can look to and see how that divide could become more pronounced. South Korea is one for sure. I think there is a way to at least look for the warning signs of it getting worse if nothing else

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Pantomime Democracy @pantodemocracy.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

bsky.app/profile/pant...

Pantomime Democracy@pantodemocracy.bsky.social

The hardest message for anyone to accept is "you've been conned." People that are so mesmerised by a powerful reactionary narrative, AND believe that you have been lying to them for a long time, are really not going to listen. This is the challenge.

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Jerome @jeromegill.com · 24/11/2024

Liberal and left wing press has to stop denigrating men and things men like. There's a place in progressivism for going to the gym and liking combat sports. These do not need to be polarising things.

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Leah McElrath @leahmcelrath.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Good piece here: bsky.app/profile/leah...

Leah McElrath@leahmcelrath.bsky.social

“For an unfortunately large number of men, loss of privilege also feels like loss of meaning and purpose.” Worthwhile read by @etvpod.bsky.social, whose observations largely match with what I’ve seen and heard monitoring right-wing digital spaces. www.skeptic.org.uk/2024/11/the-...

skeptic.org.uk

The meaning crisis, and how we rescue young men from reactionary politics

In the recent US election, male voters overwhelmingly voted for Trump – because he offered them the illusion of meaning in a world where their position is uncertain

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Huw Price 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇪🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 @huwontour.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Excellent debate here, well done Blue Sky. I've spent a lot of time in the US and there is a difference in how males behave. 1. US men seem much more fragile, they cannot really take criticism and are thin skinned.

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Spenglerian @spenglerian.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Firstly, by "far right" you mean "conservative/right." Secondly, white men in particular are the most derided group by the far-left, so is it any wonder they have abandoned them?

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Valleywoman @valleywoman.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Maybe it might be instructive to ask the young men who didn't vote for Trump why they didn't. How did they resist the far right messaging? How did they come by their values? How does their own sense of masculinity fit with their political views? Don't forget large numbers didn't vote at all.

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happywarrior24.bsky.social @happywarrior24.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

1-2 I’m thinking it all started as young boys playing video games. Have you seen the graphics and how most of them depict women? This is what they’re little brains are consuming while your not watching. When they finally come up for air, the world has changed and left them behind

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westwas.bsky.social @westwas.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I blame the Prussian military education system. Limit the scope and messaging, create a resounding, aligning battle cry of national motivation (MAGA) and unleash. Seems to be playing out across the spectrum. Ideological manipulation at its finest.

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Jon Moore @jonmoore.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

This video is probably the most relevant I've seen of a young guy who was alt-right but then changed his mind. Worth a watch youtu.be/OygHnodf0XM?...

youtu.be

How I Escaped the Alt-Right Pipeline

YouTube video by JimmyTheGiant

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Richard @stratnav.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

It’s self fulfilling. Young disillusioned men feel they can circumvent the ‘establishment’ and are misled into believing that they are part of the new order….so they vote and the idea becomes reality. The same happened with young British men felt part of Al Quieda and travel to Pakistan 😳

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medthwa.bsky.social @medthwa.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

We have long standing gender stereotypes. There’s a resurgence in challenging these -mostly by women I suggest -through social media. The economic challenges and isolation isn’t specific to young men. It’s been fused to these challenges to masculinity for personal notoriety and political gain.

media.so

Sephura Digital | Bold ideas delivered.

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Sibben @sibben.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I don’t buy the premise that young men are victims. White men are the most privileged people on the planet. What we’re seeing is perhaps a cohort who thought their privileges meant they didn’t have to make an effort. They sat at home playing video games assuming things would just be given to them.

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Vasko Popa @vaskopopa.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

They fell for the same trap you did: This is a class struggle disguised as a culture war. Until lines are clearly drawn in this struggle, grifters like Trump and Faridge will continue to blow smoke over mirrors.

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Mr IndecisiveOne @mrindecisiveone.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Me too! Hopefully we can find a way

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The Future @ourfuturefyi.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

7. 8. & 9. are the crucial elements in that thread. There is another major part not mentioned - the past 30-50 years of society changing the narratives about gender roles & capabilities... There are people who are not starting on the right, who could guide young men into a different landing zone...

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Educate & Train Society @edtrainsociety.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Maybe US 'intellectual dark web' or Pinkerites inc. Rogan, Peterson, Spiked etc. Vs 'woke' etc.; Atlas - Koch & Tanton Networks www.pinkerite.com/p/who-is-beh...

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BrendaJay @brendajay.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Surely parents are also part of the problem, and could also be part of the solution, at least for the early teens now growing up. Kids now have far more influences than I ever had growing up and it must be a nightmare navigating them all. As always, women/girls talk more and perhaps listen better.

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B Rob @alpineopen.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

If the pendulum swings too far left or too far right, the opposite effect happens. The Left needs to learn why it repelled young men Give them hope, a voice & a sense of worthiness, they’ll start to support the Left again But knock them down with snide smugness (as happened) only creates an enemy

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B Rob @alpineopen.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Unfortunately young men often felt blamed, cancelled & left out of decision making in society. They were also lied to by the Right about the Left triggering anger. The brain locks that in. & belief is linked to ego, making them defensively polarised. The Right hacked young men’s emotional response

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Prof Ros Gleadow FAA 💙💚 @rgleadow.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

So-called ‘Christian nationalism’ and indoctrination that women are lesser must be a factor - as outlined in this chilling doco: youtu.be/IkES4X_qb6c?...

youtu.be

FOR OUR DAUGHTERS Official Film

YouTube video by Kristin Kobes Du Mez

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erincowgill.bsky.social @erincowgill.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

These young guys are acting like whiny cowards.. full of blame for everything in their lives, & taking no responsibility. Before social media, they were spread out & influenced & helped more by family & peers. Now they’ve grouped together & are confirming each others’ worst impulses.. my 2 cents.

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Derek Nolan @dereknolan13.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Nihilism and apathy

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George Monbiot @georgemonbiot.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

2. Young men are a core constituency for Trump and other demagogues. This isn’t how it was “meant” to be. Young people were supposed to be progressive, while the far right was meant to attract the votes of older people.

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NatSec Kitty @ironpuss.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

MAGA seems manly men who don't give a fuck. Democrats come across as finger wagging church ladies.

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Isobel_Starling @isobelstarling.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Technology enabled women to self-educate & inform one another that we do not have to conform to trad roles. Doing this challenges the traditional idea of masculinity. When young men are castigated for misogyny or entitled behavior the far right response is to choose hatred instead of self reflection

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Shared Ground @sharedground.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

The State is possibly too ready to assume the role of the earning man.

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Tim the Raver @tg59.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

History tells us that the far right will always target and mobilise certain groups. What concerns me more is the inability to mobilise those who oppose them. Control of the media, especially social media, is vital to changing things and the belief they are being represented.

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RWC27=AllezLesBleus @caliwash83.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Where's the data to support what you're saying though? Not saying it's wrong, but what percentage of young men (19-29?) voted for Trump? And what is that number compared to all those who voted for him? Younger voters tend to be low propensity voters, so my gut says maybe 10% at best were young men.

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Simon Caudwell @simoncaudwell.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Where do children learn self-critique and skills of nuanced debate, including consideration of and respect for other opinions? In families and communities; in genuinely social settings, rather than through the narrower bandwidth and polarising effects of so-called social media.

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Lyn O’Reilly @lynoreilly.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Interesting. My theory is that the school curriculum offers little to young men; that social media influences them more than is accepted and that their social and economic needs are addressed too often through capitalist ideology.

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Finn the destroyer @finntheboy.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Not just men. Teaching 14 year olds about uk democracy. Significant number of boys were properly horrified that the king did not hold ultimate authority. Genuinely blew their minds that the prime minister had more power. “But he’s born to do the job” and similar. I was genuinely shocked.

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Red North @rednorthuk.bsky.social · 27/11/2024

I don't have the answers either, but I do know that telling these same men over and over that they're 'privileged' because they're male and (largely) white doesn't cut it.

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NetherSchot 🇪🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇳🇱 @netherschot.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

This has always been an issue. Football hooligans have now become incel gamers and the far right use it as a breeding ground. No quick solutions. More pride in where we live, more equity, better prospects, fewer racist trolls - but that'll take time.

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Karina Medici Barrella @karinabarrella.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

@msoares.bsky.social

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Nigel Goddard @ngoddard.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

📌

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David @bishbaby.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

It is a fault of expectation decent manual jobs are underpaid. High unrealised expectation if university educated and saddled with debt. And scrap heap if no skills or poor education. So exasperation leads to blaming of the other and populist brainwashing, from elite media.

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AW UK @comradechat.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

It's a problem that only the right seems to be addressing George, but something the left needs to get hold of by maybe starting with some control on far-right publications on extremist ideas?

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LittleGravitas, →EU immigrant, UK→ emigrant, anti-Brexit @catanonim.me · 25/11/2024

George, were you looking for a Thread Reader App equivalent here? skywriter.blue/pages/georgemonbiot.…

skywriter.blue

Reading Thread - skywriter.blue

Reading a Bluesky thread

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zyminda.bsky.social @zyminda.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Keep in mind we are merely drops in the ocean, flowing with the social current. Be good to the drops around you, speak your truth as you see it, vote with your wallet, and shed factional reductive thinking when possible. mental health benefits when we remind ourselves we affect only what's in reach.

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The Ron Show @ronshowatl.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

First, one had to marvel at how easy it’s been to manipulate so many cis-men (mostly white but not *just*) so rapidly. Yes, finding a sleeve-tatted liberal progressive (or a few actually) beacons would help for sure but we left of center folks always seem to be a step behind & so I almost wonder 1/

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Dave Anslow @daveanslow.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

My instinct is that western culture has shortened attention spans and promoted instant gratification so much that these disillusioned young men won’t or can’t listen to serious people who explain that change takes time. Grifters offer immediate results and blame society’s problem on imagined threats

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Catherine Heslop ï 💙 🦋🇺🇦 @catherineheslop.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

I suspect some of it is lack of education and I do not mean Maths or English etc but societal education. Learning right from wrong, respect for every individual. Stop putting certain people on pedestals that you must follow and be like. Promote diversity in the world.

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deep adhya PhD @deep-adhya.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

It is the older men, those who refuse to let go, those who can't accept a different reality from their own. They hang on to their lives and their stubborn beliefs, catching young impressionable ones, screwing with their head. How can society progress when youth who move forward are being held back?

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Madam Rebel @handle.invalid · 24/11/2024

Men would do well to spend as much time in self reflection and self criticism as women do. Then maybe we can get somewhere. Many of the decisions that they have taken and ideologies they believe in now are precisely the ones that don’t benefit them. But when living by bravado, that’s the result!

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ClimateSurvivalSolutions.com @climate-solutions.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Maybe someone should ask some of the young people why they voted for Trump.

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Nathan Lillie @nlillie.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Young men experience alienation from a left that labels everything about them as toxic masculinity. While young men shouldn't need to conform to narrow visions of masculinity, this cuts both ways. Reject only those performances of masculinity that really are harmful. For the rest, let boys be boys.

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Maz @mazjay.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Personally I blame The Media. Too many are allowed to put one side of the debate but not the other side or allow statements to be made without accurate challenges. So people take comments as fact but should have been corrected by journalists or editors.

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Juliacat @juliaccat.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Completely agree you. you would think the outpouring of love for that nerdy pummel horse guy at the Olympics would have sent a message.

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Emily Rowe @emilyrowe.bsky.social · 27/11/2024

“Study Predicts 45% of Women Will Be Single by 2030” Capitalism has consumed female labour yet women still carry the bulk of domestic labour and childcare duties in the family. Why would anyone choose to be an indentured servant? Younger men believe it’s their right and they’re entitled and angry.

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lizm24.bsky.social @lizm24.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Labour talk about schools being more than exam factories. We also need youth workers, deep questioning to explore preconceptions, group work, get older lads to offer support, get them onto a meaningful path. We can all think back to a significant person who transformed our lives. Nothing new here

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Kate Auty @kateauty.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

There is a lot of talk about isolation.. but it seems to me that many young men actively follow all sorts of #sports . What is that industry doing to assume its responsibilities?

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matthewprice02.bsky.social @matthewprice02.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Really interesting thoughts. I would say these trends are correct as I see them among my peers and have done all through my years at school. Somehow there is a void of charismatic men who see the benefits of left/centre left politics who can communicate those views to a younger male audience.

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André Brito @andre-brito.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

You said in your latest book (excellent read, btw) that we need a new narrative. But potential narrators are being consistently weaponised (www.bbc.co.uk/news/article...). Young men need positive examples of "strength" and "success" to counter the current trend. Show, celebrate and protect them!

bbc.co.uk

Far-right group using sports to 'build militia', experts warn

A group with links to white supremacists is using sports clubs to ready its followers for violence.

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Nobstick @bunnocks.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

When a democracy is sick, fascism comes to its bedside, but it is not to inquire about its health.

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Backyard Politics @backyardpolitics.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

One thing, I believe, is that the MAGA/Q-Anon world has convinced a large portion of the country that Democrats are warmongers and plan to institute a draft. Like most MAGA misperceptions, it is based on selfishness and fear that Trump masterfully taps into with lies.

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David JW Bailey @davidjwbailey.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Not just “young men”. They are just the currently loudest victims in the game of “whack-a-mole”. You wait until you visit any of these interest groups: - mumsnet - ⁠yoga - ⁠homeopathy - ⁠beauty tips - ⁠homeschooling parents - ⁠dog walkers - ⁠”small group” evangelicals - ⁠catholic prayer groups

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Paul Boland @paulobear.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Home schooling? It’s my latest thought on factors as to why Trump was voted in.

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Duncan Grimley @duncangrimley.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

I think online culture values irreverence, cynicism and piss taking which puts it at odds with the earnestness of progressive political movements. Combined with peoples innate selfishness and the inequalities of late capitalism there’s a fertile environment for people on the right to exploit.

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Thomas Olsen ⓥ @thomasol.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Excellent points. Just want to add that a sense of purpose seems to have been conflated with attainment of wealth, success in business and a general cut-throat demeanor. We need to make it popular to strive for inner fulfillment, peace of mind, decency, solidarity and working for the common good.

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Willemien @wimpelientje.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

📌

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SciComm @scicommunicator.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

A 'way to through' would be to have voters that supported leaders whom had a higher level of general intelligence & integrity (e.g., honesty) Generally, western democracies, more so the USA, are becoming more like kleptocracies. Trump's macho gesturing, etc, attracts men that are anti-establishment

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Alex @alexsz.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Young men need communities and spaces where they feel valued by their peers. Currently not many of them have access to these spaces, and when they do, the spaces are often toxic. They also often spend most of their childhood without close positive male role models. Weekend dads, single moms,

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Adam Johnston: Elmwood Fietser @adamjwpg.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I don't think social media has helped this either. When young men, who feel lost see the likes of Tate, Rogan, Peterson, etc will eat this up, without regard. Sadly many young men wat this up as they have been frustrated and ignored.

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Fiona Bolger @fabtknz.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

As a teacher of 9 - 13 year olds, it is obvious at that age which students have empathy and which don’t. Boys especially spend many hours on YouTube and online gaming, exposed to a lot of racist, sexist, bragging content. I think those with less developed empathy are pulled to far right content.

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Bella_healtheco @bella-healtheco.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Do not underestimate the destructive influence of 24/7 p*rn available to young boys via their phones, iPads etc. - seriously distorts their view of girls, relationships & more.

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Bill Hall @artboy.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I grew up in a South Yorkshire working class culture. The "good" jobs were in coal, steel, & engineering - "Men's Work", in dangerous environments where "masculinity" is a given. There was pride in being able to pay your way, and support a family. Amazon warehouse workers lack both pay and pride.

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nirwanaboy.bsky.social @nirwanaboy.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

As a young man I was very disaffected and angry. Why? I have no idea and did not then either. Luckily I couldn't vote till I was 21. The cure? Best guess - positive engagement in something bigger than themselves.

020

Winter02 @winter02.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

It goes back through education. Voters are now divided by age and education. We need to pour money into early years so that boys succeed and don’t identify as a loser and fall prey to the far right.

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Chris Norton @chrisn50.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

📌

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BlkNtvTerraFFVI @blkntvterraffvi.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Relevant post from a thread I did about the Star Wars show The Acolyte Speaking of Star Wars, this is an Anakin problem. Anakin is 100% responsible for becoming Darth Vader, but it might have helped if his mom didn't get killed while he was taught to suppress emotions bsky.app/profile/blkn...

BlkNtvTerraFFVI@blkntvterraffvi.bsky.social

I think we were naive and at times a little harmful. I fully acknowledge that it's really harmful to say that men/boys need to be pushed aside, and white people need to move out of the way, for women and PoC. The message SHOULD have been that we'll all get there TOGETHER.

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Yes, and also ... @yesandalso.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Young men are in a coercive control relationship with capitalism at this point.

000

rosskinghorn.bsky.social @rosskinghorn.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

I think it's simpler than that. They being targeted. When I first went on TikTok, it was awash with far-right propaganda. These tendencies are in young men to an extent, but I think they're being provoked by whatever drives these algorithms - profit, propaganda etc.

020

Michael @mikeyh71.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

Worth a read @georgemonbiot.bsky.social. Young males are prime targets for those that would use their personal issues (and data) against their own interests. Immoral billionaires are using 'tech' to indoctrinate vulnerable elements of our societies. bsky.app/profile/mike...

Michael@mikeyh71.bsky.social

A really scary thread showing how our own data has been weaponised to have citizens vote against our own interests. #brexit #trump

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stanleysau1.bsky.social @stanleysau1.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

One word George, hopelessness. Seemingly, each way the young men turn, many cannot envisage a future, family, a job, an education, housing etc. Meanwhile hearing stories of wealthy folk getting wealthier. Then they hear the hollow promises of the political classes and react accordingly.

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Neil @xmarksthedespot.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

For me the key is aspiration. It's a distraction from all evils. Give people something to achieve that will improve their lives and a path to achieve it.

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vigjimmy.bsky.social @vigjimmy.bsky.social · 24/11/2024

Young men are drenched in a poisonous idea of masculinity from school age onwards. They have no means to achieve that and of course nor should they. But it warps thinking, creates anger, stress. Easy prey for toe rag manipulators.

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EmT @emj013.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

In Adlerian psychology, we all strive to belong. Our sense of communities, person to person interactions have diminished due to many factors including social media. Our mental health is better when we have higher social interests..... www.alfredadler.edu/about/alfred...

alfredadler.edu

Alfred Adler: Theory and Application - Adler Graduate School

Alfred Adler (1870-1937), world renowned philosopher and psychiatrist, stressed the need to understand individuals within their social context. During the early 1900s, Adler began addressing such cruc...

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dilee.bsky.social @dilee.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

3. The assumptions and narratives shared widely by government, in education and elsewhere are deeply embedded and create a belief that it is ‘better’ to be middle class and we should all aspire to this Why ? Do we not then value essential workers skilled/unskilled workers tradespeople tool makers!

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dilee.bsky.social @dilee.bsky.social · 25/11/2024

This troubles and requires a fundamental change in attitudes and a rethink of what/who we value in society. We speak of equality and fairness and protect those who are different challenging racism sexism homophobia and more.. but seldom do we speak of social class and challenge classism

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