iiinova — where your digital self keeps evolving

HRH Emma Lynn Mulier @emma.mulier.io · 17/02/2024

All right. If we accept their claim on face value, can we file charges against AC for employing a minor? harboring an unregistered immigrant? slave labour? (did they PAY the poor chat bor?) I really don't think they thought this through.

Victoria De Capua @victoriadecapua.com · 17/02/2024

this is so fucking on brand for them.

Sam Horrorwitt @shurwitt.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Setting a terrible legal precedent for Data, though.

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One Who Walks Among the Dead @anubisthejackal.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

Well, at least they tried :P

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Arcturus SaDiablo @asadiablo.me · 16/02/2024

Okay, time to ban that chatbot from associating with any customer anywhere ever. That means if it's not 100% developed and programmed in house, that's gonna hurt the original source a lot more.

Halibut @halibut.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

I laughed so hard at the argument that a bot is its own thing. He’s just a guy, take it up with him. Lmao.

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voldemooch.bsky.social @voldemooch.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

Good, set precedence against this type of technology being 'not my problem' arguments; hold these organizations accountable.

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John "Arbitrary Bans" Bluesky 𓅄 @arbitrarybans.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Since corporations are people, Air Canada can go fuck himself.

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Jen @sheerjenius.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

The weird thing about this is that AC absolutely provides retroactive refunds on bereavement grounds. I deal with AC in a refund-handling capacity daily and can point to a file right now where they did this. But in true AC fashion there is zero consistency between teams and departments.

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NicolasRobiodux.bsky.social @nicolasrobiodux.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

IBM, 1979.

From 1979 IBM presentation: "A COMPUTER CAN NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE
THEREFORE A COMPUTER MUST NEVER MAKE A MANAGEMENT DECISION"

💜 Cyn ✨ @obicynkenobi.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

What the god damn helllllll

000

🐈‍⬛Cate o’ Nine Tails 🐈‍⬛ @kallaipdx.com · 16/02/2024

Love how we’ve gone from “A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision” to “A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer should make all management decisions.”

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Eridanis @lasciate.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

It's so nice to hear about a company being called to account for their bullshit and not successfully weaseling out of it.

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***Account marked for deletion*** @waitforgotaboutguyon.top · 16/02/2024

Remember when site "chatbots" just did a bad search of the website? I kind of miss that

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isosolies.bsky.social @isosolies.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Air Canada gonna Air Canada...

Doug Merrill 🌻 @bagatsen.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

"anyway they lost the case hardcore" This is how you know it's a Canadian story.

Cretin AmBOOvalent (comedy music) 🫱🏻‍🫲🏾 @captainambivalent.com · 17/02/2024

The icing on the cake is the part near the end where the chatbot was way more expensive than human agents

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amal_forworld @amalfromfrance.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

😂 Et ce n'est que le début.. Ah quelle belle période AI nous attend !

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Matt @charliebird.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Since when have AI been asked to be treated like adults?

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Corey Schneider @cdskc.me · 16/02/2024

Probably just because it's Canada. Seems likely an American court would have been like "yeah, that checks out."

Elly is 3 birds in a gardening hat @almost-elly.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Is this the timeline in which Air Canada learns that Futurama is fiction and not a legal defense manual? Apparently so!

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U.Inferno - hey look at my art @uinferno.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

There was a class in Uni for my CS degree that was about the business of programming. The first day was all about the ethics of what we do. Computers cannot be held accountable so it cant decide/relay policy. ML is a shadow of human intelligence. Just as unpredictable but with none of the cognizance

Batty o_O @shadowbat.net · 16/02/2024

That's similar to Alec Baldwin's argument. The gun did it.

postin' seller's finest postin's @puzzlemathstar.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

can't help but notice that basically all innovations in corporate customer service for as long as I've lived have been ways to try to avoid accountability

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Harper, Clockwork Anima 🏳️‍⚧️ @thatharper.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

I got two words for that airline: DUE FREAKING DILIGENCE

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costrike @costrike.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

@hypervisible.bsky.social lololol

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Dave Finberg @dfinberg.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

You mean this isn't a legal defense? www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPJD...

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Marjorie-We did it to ourselves @hydroqueen211.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

That is wild!

Lomelindi12 @lomelindi12.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

😂👏👏👏

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ChelseaNH @chelseanh.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Interesting that this was settled in small claims court. I'm wondering how this would have played out in a higher court, with judges who have a correspondingly higher sense of their own importance. (And a full-court legal press from the airline.)

Sapindaceae @sapindaceae.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

This story made me so happy to read, thanks for linking. That adjudicator was not having any of it.

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i'm mrchan / immrchan @mrchan.org · 17/02/2024

The instigating event and plaintiff aside, everything about this is hilarious

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Yasspacho @freesolocyclist.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Oh, ffs, pay the poor guy, then fix the glitch. It's peanuts for them!

Juan Incognito @juanincognito.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Reminds me of time I purchased a rail discount card from the train company. I had never had one so asked if it would work for my normal commute and the guy who sold it to me said yes. Then when I tried to use it weeks later, it didn't. Company just kept telling me off for not reading t&cs

Lizard @lizardky.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

If it's a legal entity with responsibility for its actions, it it paid? Does it get a 40 hour work week? Health insurance? Standard vacation time? Can it quit and take a job with another airline?

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CTMay @ctmay.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

Fucking Air Canada. I hate them.

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The antifa your daddy warned you about @stryder.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

This is the appropriate method for pushing back against AI-enshittification: you hit them hard in the wallet and hold them accountable.

000

jack the nonabrasive @karabaic.org · 16/02/2024

@alexhanna.bsky.social @emilymbender.bsky.social this might be a good candidate for AI purgatory this week. At least one thing went right.

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Bill Di Maria Rico @bouncingship.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Disgusting

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Aaron Turner @synfinatic.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Corporations are people. AI is different people.

robbie aka. CannedLizard @cannedlizard.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

Bold strategy. Sounds like it will only work if business law doesn’t have a long and robust history of dealing with individuals being agents of a business and working out how to apportion liability in those situations. Let’s see how this plays out….

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Gav I @gav.blue · 16/02/2024

And rightly so.

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Chris @kodiak.app · 16/02/2024

"a paucity of cases featuring bad advice from chatbots" is such a magnificent phrase.

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Alannah Rooney ♾️ 🎃 @alannahr.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

"I didn't stab that man, your honour! My arm decided itself to stick a knife in that man 20 times!"

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Monghoul (ooga-booga) @mongrel.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Not only did that argument did not fly, the National Transportation Safety Board is now laying out the carefully-numbered remaining small burnt pieces of it on a tarp in a hangar.

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Tunstall's Ghost @tunstallsghost.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

The decision is worth a read. "Hey, it's in our contract that we're not liable!" ... and then relies on a "Trust me bro" and doesn't actually submit the contract into the tribunal. www.canlii.org/en/bc/bccrt/...

To the extent Air Canada argues it is not liable due to certain terms or conditions of its tariff, I note it did not provide a copy of the relevant portion of the tariff. It only included submissions about what the tariff allegedly says. Air Canada is a sophisticated litigant that should know it is not enough in a legal process to assert that a contract says something without actually providing the contract. The CRT also tells all parties are told to provide all relevant evidence. I find that if Air Canada wanted to a raise a contractual defense, it needed to provide the relevant portions of the contract. It did not, so it has not proven a contractual defence.

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Citizen Motown @motown.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

Yea Air Canada, take off ya hosers

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Adrian Tchaikovsky @aptshadow.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

I feel the companies desperate to play up the agency of these tin echo chamber machines would come down like a hammer on an actual AI’s rights should one ever exist.

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Kyle L @kpleopold.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Sadly, it looks like Air Canada just has to pay the difference in ticket price? Even if legal fees get tossed in, it’ll still be just a pittance.

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Glenn Fleishman @glennf.com · 17/02/2024

Thus it spakes from a plane

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Pictures of the Floating World @floatingworlds.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

!!!

jess m. ☕🍂 @jametc.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Hahah I'm so glad they lost this

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CarBOOn SCARE-a @cartoonsara.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

“"This is a remarkable submission," Civil Resolution Tribunal (CRT) member Christopher Rivers wrote.” Is that Canadian for “What the fuck is this bullshit?”

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kdubz2016.bsky.social @kdubz2016.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

That is nuts. Glad that the argument was shut down.

Tyrone Peng McSteinchez @tpmcsteinchez.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

Got fucked by Air Canada late last year. They’re the Spirit/RyanAir of the Great White North. AVOID

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Eric Briggs @tgebriggs.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision. IBM slide, 1979

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Graham Shevlin @grahamshevlin.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

Small claims court response to Air Canada: are you f**king joking? NO.

Stephen Gower @srgower.com · 16/02/2024

Probably should have used IBM's Jeopardy computer.

Aleggra @aleggra.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

"There is [no way Mr. Moffatt or any other Air Canada customers] would know which section of Air Canada's webpage is accurate and which is not."

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Formerly Known As No Display Name @kcvellum.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

I mean, that almost feels like the Air Canda lawyer went "This is BS. How can I lose without getting fired?" I mean, it's likely just normal corporate lawyer schmukitude, but this is so dumb other options are plausible ...

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Randy Milholland @choochoobear.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

The fact they made that argument with a straight face.

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FrancisDee (like Jesus, only older) @fresiann44.bsky.social · 17/02/2024

Ryan North @ryannorth.ca · 16/02/2024

They also argued that hey, so what if the chatbot lied, because the correct info was available elsewhere on their site. The tribunal's response: "There is no reason why Mr. Moffatt [the guy who got screwed] should know that one section of Air Canada's webpage is accurate, and another is not" lol

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Abyrae @abyrae.bsky.social · 16/02/2024

As a Canadian who avoids Air Canada and its sub companies as much as I can, colour me unsurprised. They are the worst.