iiinova — where your digital self keeps evolving

Replies

Michael Hobbes @michaelhobbes.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

I think this comes from a good place but I disagree. A common thread in deradicalization stories is stigma: Once people start losing friends and jobs they reconsider their beliefs. Obviously you should try to be nice to people but you also need to draw a line where you won’t engage anymore.

But in Persuadable, a new limited series podcast from CNN Audio, we try to start a productive conversation about solutions. tep One is empathy
After years of talking to people with irrational beliefs, I began to think about some of my own.

Donie O’Sullivan@donie.bsky.social

Why it’s time we change how we talk about conspiracy theories www.cnn.com/2025/05/03/p...

cnn.com

Why it’s time we change how we talk about conspiracy theories | CNN Politics

CNN’s Donie O’Sullivan, who interviews people with crazy beliefs, reflects on some of his own.

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Michael Hobbes @michaelhobbes.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

The narrative that anti-vaxxers or QAnon weirdos will come back from the brink if we're nice enough to them isn't tenable morally and doesn't hold up empirically. Ostracizing people whose beliefs harm others is a critical aspect of a functioning marketplace of ideas.

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pittiechai.bsky.social @pittiechai.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

Allowing them to articulate heinous views does not requiring affirmative platforming of them.

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r #FreeŁink @rifka.bsky.social · 11/05/2025

Wish liberals could see this, not actual sympathies with antivaxers’ ideas, was what was wrong w Stein

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Coureur de FemboOoo[Big Bad Bæddel Borg]🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈🐔 @droctorock.northsky.social · 03/05/2025

I absolutely have empathy for them, but that doesn't mean I need to reach out, or be nice, or act like their ideas aren't so bad their ideas are SO BAD, and if they want human kindness they can start by offering some

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Big Sky on Blue Sky @cinephile914.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Agreed, but it isn't morally justifiable to drive those who can still be reasoned with further to the right out of a sense of smugness or arrogance.

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Jezza Riddell @jezzariddell.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

I keep being reminded of an RD I worked with who was full speed for Bitcoin and...well she would never say she was for MAHA but. She was playing an anti-seed oil podcast for her intern, and the intern was like, "But olive oil is still okay? I don't know what I'd do without olive oil."

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unshakeablejake.bsky.social @unshakeablejake.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Wholeheartedly agree. It is always good to punch a nazi in the face. A child molester recognized should minimum be ostracized and run from town away from your community of children and notify as many as possible that they are NOT to be welcomed. I miss standards, morals and SHAME for shameful acts.

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Kelly ૮･ﻌ･ა 🫪 @pfkelly.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

Like I have been saying "Punch a Nazi"

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Alana McLaughlin🏳️‍⚧️ @alanaferal.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

I agree with you by and large. That said, I feel obligated to point out that this is very similar to what reactionaries are saying to do to trans people to shame us into detransition and assimilation.

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Life in Common @arthursmid.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

I think the harmful beliefs are formed and nurtured within communities, and that's the attraction of the beliefs themselves as it allows the believer to join a group, to be accepted.

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Life in Common @arthursmid.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

Sanctioning Russia’s oligarchs—with shame thebulletin.org/premium/2022...

thebulletin.org

Sanctioning Russia’s oligarchs—with shame

The last few months have brought a different sanctions strategy to the fore: one aimed at stigmatizing the individuals close to Putin’s regime, in hopes of shattering elite support and encouraging rev...

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(helluva boss s3 spoilers!!)Judau @hydalawn1.bsky.social · 29/05/2025

"You cant change people's views" no you cant, but you can show those views are fucked by calling them out, especially when it's supposed friends and family "Oh shit if I hold onto this belief my son/daughter will leave me...I love them more than this belief so I will be rid of it" happens

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coloradojones.bsky.social @coloradojones.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

This is true of voters, as well. Having it sink in deeply to everyone everywhere that people who vote for Trump and Republicans are stupid suckers is what will reach those people, not outreach

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SoylentOrange @soylentorange.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

Make Ignorance Shameful Again

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Marcy but spooky🏳️‍⚧️ 🔞 (commissions open) @endblock.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Their entire thing relies on people taking them seriously. The instant someone didn't, they had absolutely no defense and the dem consultant class put a stop to it, lest it be too effective

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Beato Puente @beatopuente.bsky.social · 11/05/2025

And at the personal level, it is often part of healthy and loving detachment. People need to hit rock bottoms sometimes.

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Dutchie @dutchieh.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

social media precludes the 'functioning' part of the marketplace of ideas Every outlandish idea can find a community of supporters to reinforce views of the adherents. Feedback of "get out of here, that's bat sh!t" from one's peers no longer holds. There is no self-correcting back to the middle.

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Loreseed @loreseed.com · 03/05/2025

Likewise, it's really kind of eye opening when you notice centrists keep saying things like "the left is too mean to men and boys! You can't bully them out of their right wing opinions!" while the right wing influencers go around calling everyone cucks and f-slurs to get them to fall in line.

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baghutch.bsky.social @baghutch.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

A million times this.

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Elim Garak @elimgarak240b.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

I'd say that ostracization is like a social immune response forming a cyst around a foreign object and keeping it from poisoning the rest of the body. It's not optional if you want any semblance of civil society to continue. They are the definition of antisocial.

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Twenty Thousand Thorns @20000thorns.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

Demonstrating empathy does not obligate us to humor or validate destructive ideas. It doesn't obligate us to be a doormat or to give credence to irrationality. Be open to dialog, manage our own emotions, avoid ad hominem attacks... and nope out of the interaction when it grinds down. It's doable.

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Wesley Bond @wesleybond.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

Empathy need not mean “unquestioning acceptance,” and can keep a bridge back open to people lost to conspiracies without enabling. It can work sometimes. Ostracism however pushes them to seek alternative connections in the conspiracy world. Jesselyn Cook’s “The Quiet Damage” was eye opening for me.

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Badgerfacts @badgerfacts.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

You know they are gonna ask for sympathy after killing their own children when this is all over.

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brian pillion @anaphoristand.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

One of the persistent threats posed by our increasingly online spaces is the decreased valence of that ostracism. It decreases the compulsion to reevaluate and further entrenches the culturally toxic fringes.

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Psychopomp Gecko @psychopompgecko.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Well now you've lost Robert Evans. I agree with you on this point, btw

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Brian Eisley @brianeisley.bsky.social · 29/05/2025

I am a devoted fan of naming, shaming and shunning. My life will not be improved by making space in it for idiots and assholes.

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🕸godhatesyeeeest🕷 @godhatesyeast.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

nothing a couple good kicks to the head and a year of intensive deprogramming can’t fix

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nerdylittlemilo🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ @nerdby.bsky.social · 13/05/2025

I think it's important to keep in mind that you can have empathy for people or forgive them without interacting with them. Sometimes the kindest thing we can do for someone is leave them alone to heal on their own. Either they'll get it right or they won't.

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Knot Aloud @bluecow11.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Emotionally my hunch is there has to be a real personal crisis for people to reconsider their usual path and coping strategies. The resistance to this is very individual...

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Michael Orr @orrorbit.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Also practically how would this work, most are basement dwelling, monosyllabic, gun collecting, food hoarding, shower dodging, foul smelling, lank haired, slimy skinned, daylight allergic odd balls

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Chris Huth @umlauthuth.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

"nice to them" is meaningless if we're not clear about what we're talking about. if ostracizing (if that's even possible to those with hegemonic power) them means you're not longer demanding they change their behaviour and informing them about the reality at hand, that's still not worker solidarity

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I am Erk🍁🪿 @i-am-erk.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

I think there's some value in empathy as a way of trying to understand how they got there. I don't think we need to treat them with kindness and respect once they've stopped treating others that way.

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Lynda Woolard @lyndawoolard.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

I thought Tough Love was one of the right’s favorite concepts. Am I remembering that wrong?

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david ellison haters club @meamval.myatproto.social · 03/05/2025

these are people who want to hurt you and hurt your children and that is why they believe what they believe. they are not confused: they want you to die. that is their sole reason for being alive.

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Celeste Drake @celested.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

Hmm. Alternative idea: “ostracism” was a real thing in Ancient Athens, but it was practiced on individuals, not 30% of the population simultaneously, which would have likely started a civil war. Today, we believe in human rights & dignity for everyone. Everyone means everyone… 1/2

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DC Cassandra @dccassandra.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

#MakeNazisUncomfortableAgain

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Grapefruit Scented Mexican @kazegafukuhi.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

You can’t nice enough someone into giving up meth or leaving a cult. That switch has to flip in their brain on their own. At least the people I’m talking about are usually victims and not perpetrators of abuse.

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Michael Hobbes @michaelhobbes.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Consider the way we treat people who want to get rid of age of consent laws. Do we publish op-eds proposing that view in major newspapers? Do we produce humanizing documentaries about how they came to that belief? No. We laugh in their faces and tell them to shut up if they bring it up.

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dr. izzy true @izzytrue.com · 03/05/2025

this is tangential but so much of the "censorship" a lot of conservative people describe from the past 10 years is just social ramifications for espousing sociopathic ideas.

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sleepyzane @sleepyzane.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

it's ok to be not nice to people who walk around allowing their contagious illnesses to infect, disable, and kill others

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lindsay @hyperglavin.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

Oh, this guy is just giving cranks free advertising again huh

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Vamos Heavenly Creature🇺🇦 @bluedotspecialfl.bsky.social · 11/05/2025

correct. Ostracism is very effective.

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Mr. Pleasantries @jeffreyd.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Making neo-Nazis feel like they had to be quiet about their beliefs in public worked pretty well for a few decades there

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Hellscape Navigator @hellscapenavigator.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

A simple “not cool, dude” can go a long way if employed early enough

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Mork @fourdeltavictor.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

We used to literally exile people from places we should bring that back

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SugarHead @sugarheadco.com · 03/05/2025

Darwin had ideas...

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Radio Free Kerbin @radiofreekerbin.bsky.social · 04/05/2025

Except that ostracizing them in this case also feeds into their victim narrative and drives them further into their isolated, radical communities. I don't know what the solution is but this problem has become too widespread for it to be an effective option and instead has the opposite effect.

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cuuixsilver.bsky.social @cuuixsilver.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

It seems to me it’s similar to dealing with addicts, and we should not enable them.

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Apocrypher @apocrypher.com · 03/05/2025

Wondering where the line is between this strategy and “new atheism” (just listened to the End of Faith episode) in regard to religious practices that actively harm people. Not arguing, I agree with you

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Jennifer Van Goethem @jennvg.bsky.social · 12/05/2025

Shame works.

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AmyMarie @amymarie3456.bsky.social · 11/05/2025

Having studied clinical psychology, I think I have a different definition of empathy than how you’re using the word. There’s cognitive empathy (let me paraphrase subject, did I get that right?) and emotional empathy (you have fear of your role as a man & anger you can’t destroy everything to fix it)

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Felgraf @felgraf.bsky.social · 03/05/2025

Especially since a lot of these people mistake kindness for weakness, and have been trained to do so.

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