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Martin Plöderl

@ploederl.bsky.social
2.1K followers 1.1K following 6.5K posts

Clinical psychologist and psychotherapist, part-time researcher with a focus on suicide prevention and psychopharmacology. ploederlm.github.io/publications scholar.google.at/citations?user=76… Nature, espresso, cycling.

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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 10m
Time for a re-tweet
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 15h
Gratulation, Hochwürden! 😉
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Reposted by Martin Plöderl
Josef M Klein @resurgequality.bsky.social · 21h
No matter what they decide about clinical significance, not correcting it is definitely not the way to go.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 22h
Thanks for notifying about this! Fully agree with your comments.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 07/10/2026
But the German guidelines conclude that there is "strong evidence" that fluoxetine, sertraline, and escitalopram reduce depression symptoms. See here (in German): madindeutschland.org/problematisc...
madindeutschland.org
Problematische Interpretation der Wirksamkeit von Antidepressiva in der S3-Leitlinie zur Depressionsbehandlung bei Kindern und Jugendlichen | Mad in Deutschland
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 07/10/2026
That Attari was not rated as high ROB even in the "other" domain is problematic. Does the REB safeguard for "zombie" trials?
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Reposted by Martin Plöderl
Richard Van Noorden @richvn.bsky.social · 02/10/2026
NEW: researchers say one 'zombie' study in Iran, 20 years ago, has skewed the world's medical evidence base for using Prozac to treat depression in children. They stop short of saying don't use Prozac this way, but want clinical guidelines revised. @nature.com www.nature.com/articles/d41...
nature.com
Prozac use for childhood depression skewed by single flawed medical trial
One small study in Iran swayed meta-analyses in favour of antidepressant use in children, researchers say.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 04/10/2026
Interesting thread of @literalbanana.bsky.social on X about our recent zombie-study in the wider context surrounding efficacy of antidepressants for children and adolescents. Thanks! twitter-thread.com/t/1974884739... @floriannaudet.bsky.social
twitter-thread.com
I GOT A THIRD NICKEL but unfortunately it's driving the most influential meta-analysis of antidepressants in children and adolescents (thread) https://t.co/DrZ9V4g41b by @literalbanana(Science Banana)...
I GOT A THIRD NICKEL but unfortunately it's driving the most influential meta-analysis of antidepressants in children and adolescents (thread) https://t.co/DrZ9V4g41b
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 03/10/2026
Ooops, here is the link: mmmdata.io/posts/2025/0...
mmmdata.io
If researchers find Cohen's *d* = 8, no they didn't
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about the plausibility of standardized effect sizes in the last year. From a trustworthiness assessment perspective, (standardized) effect sizes have a great combinat...
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Florian Naudet @floriannaudet.bsky.social · 03/10/2026
🍫 or 💩? About the effect size reported in a trial that shaped the estimated effect of fluoxetine in meta-analyses of pediatric depression, my stellar co-author @ploederl.bsky.social says: “It’s the kind of effect size you only get if you ask people whether they prefer chocolate or faeces.” 👇👇👇
nature.com
Prozac use for childhood depression skewed by single flawed medical trial
One small study in Iran swayed meta-analyses in favour of antidepressant use in children, researchers say.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 03/10/2026
See this excellent blog by @ianhussey.mmmdata.io for background on implausible effect sizes, including the reference to the 🍫 vs. 💩 study. We thought of including this comparison in the paper but did not, in order to avoid being all too provocative and rejected
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Jacek Debiec, MD, PhD, DPhil 🌎 🧠 @drjacekdebiec.bsky.social · 03/10/2026
“The main argument for using antidepressants in children is that they are better than nothing. The evidence shows otherwise”. www.nature.com/articles/d41...
nature.com
Prozac use for childhood depression skewed by single flawed medical trial
One small study in Iran swayed meta-analyses in favour of antidepressant use in children, researchers say.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 03/10/2026
Thank you, Jacek! 🙏
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 02/10/2026
Thanks, Erick!
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Reposted by Martin Plöderl
Florian Naudet @floriannaudet.bsky.social · 02/10/2026
🔥 OUR STUDY FEATURED IN NATURE NEWS What if one flawed zombie trial 🧟 helped shape the evidence for treating depression in children? Quote : "Elia Abi-Jaoude, [...] calls the paper a “slam-dunk study”. “I hope it will get wide exposure” he says."
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 02/10/2026
Our new paper is also feated in Nature news: www.nature.com/articles/d41...
nature.com
Prozac use for childhood depression skewed by single flawed medical trial
One small study in Iran swayed meta-analyses in favour of antidepressant use in children, researchers say.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 02/10/2026
Thanks for covering this so decently!
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Reposted by Martin Plöderl
Richard Van Noorden @richvn.bsky.social · 02/10/2026
@floriannaudet.bsky.social, @ploederl.bsky.social and others found the change comes down to whether the meta-analyses happend to include a particular clinical trial on 40 children in Iran from 2006. This one trial found an unfeasibly huge advantage for Prozac over another antidepressant.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
36/ Instead, we believe that the corrected results of the NMAs need to be published, ideally in the journals where the NMAs appeared. This way guideline committees, clinicians, and patients have access to more reliable estimations of efficacy.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
35/ Second, even if the zombie trial is retracted/corrected, how will the impact of this study be known if the evidence syntheses in which it is included are unchanged?
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
34/ First, we believe it *does* make a difference if efficacy melted down into the range of clinically unimportance, especially if it was considered as a first-line drug!
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
33/ Furthermore, we were recommended to contact the journal where the zombie trial was published. We regret that Lancet decided this way, because we disagree with both arguments.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
32/ But this ignores that the numerical difference is well within the range of clinical equivalence. We think clinicians and families should be able to decide for themselves using the most accurate estimates of efficacy
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
31/ Reviewers argued that corrected results don’t change the clinical conclusions because fluoxetine’s efficacy was still statistically significant
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
30/ We then contacted Lancet about an appropriate format to submit our analysis and were invited to submit it as a full paper and not just as a commentary, as we had intended. Our study was rejected after peer review.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
29/ This shows that even a small zombie trial can severely “infect” the overall results of a NMA. Furthermore, this shows that unreliable/zombie trials can be undetected with classic risk of bias analysis.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
28/ In summary, excluding the zombie trial lead to an efficacy estimation of fluoxetine which aligns across the NMAs and which are largely in the range of clinical equivalence.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
27/ Nonetheless, we were able to closely reproduce the findings of the three NMAs. !!! Main finding: excluding the zombie trial resolved inconsistencies between the Lancet and Cochrane NMAs and also inconsistencies between direct and indirect evidence in the Lancet NMAs
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
26/ Hetrick’s group replied that the data and code were not accessible anymore. For data, Hetricks’s group provided some pre-processed data, as the final data-set was not accessible anymore. Cipriani’s data can be found online, and Zhou’s data was made public in another publication.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
25/ We then tried to re-analyze all three NMAs to see if excluding the zombie trial could resolve the inconsistencies. The codes in Cipriani/Zhou’s appendix were not sufficient for reproduction and we did not get the full code upon request.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
24/ 🧟 Zombie trials are “randomised controlled trials that appear to be false and those where the data lack credibility so blatantly that they can be called ‘zombies’”. The term does not imply anything about the authors' intent. It focuses on the quality of the papers”
restores.univ-rennes.fr
Zombie trials | RestoRes
"Zombie trials" refer to untrustworthy clinical trials. The RestoRes initiative is committed to accurately describing these trials, thoroughly analyzing their design and results to highlight their cha...
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
23/ We used the new INSPECT-SR checklist, leading to a “serious concerns” judgement regarding trustworthiness. Such trials may be labelled as “Zombie” trials. We contacted the authors but got no response. It is not possible to post on PubPeer as the study is not listed in PubMed and has no DOI 🧟
medrxiv.org
INSPECT-SR: a tool for assessing trustworthiness of randomised controlled trials
Precis The integrity of evidence synthesis is threatened by problematic randomised controlled trials (RCTs). These are RCTs where there are serious concerns about the trustworthiness of the data or fi...
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
22/ There were also other numerical discrepancies. The small trial also replaced drop-outs with new cases, without noting if this was pre-specified and if these patients were randomized, too. These and other problematic features call into question the trustworthiness of the data in Attari et al.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
21/ Calculating the SMD from the endpoint scores or from baseline-endpoint score differences lead to much smaller effects, at least for the usual range of correlations between pre-post assessments. An SMD of 4.2 can only be achieved for implausibly large correlations > 0.97.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
20/ We inspected this trial and found several problematic features. We noted unusually small SDs for the change scores and larger SDs (in the usual range) based on pre- and post-scores.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
19/ for context effect sizes exceeding one are hardly found for psychiatric treatments. Where can you find such enormous effects? For example, if you ask people if they prefer shit over chocolate, SMD 4.5 💩🍫 journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/...
journals.sagepub.com
Sage Journals: Discover world-class research
Subscription and open access journals from Sage, the world's leading independent academic publisher.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
18/ We then found that this large indirect effect may have been the result of a single small trial (n=40) comparing fluoxetine with nortriptyline, with an extremely large effect of SMD 4.2. This is obviously an outlier (also confirmed with formal analysis methods).
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
17/ Therefore, we dug deeper into the two Lancet NMAs and found that there was a large difference between direct evidence (SMD -0.26 in Cipriani) and indirect evidence (SMD -1.40 in Cipriani) for fluoxetine. This was acknowledged but remained unexplained. Same in Zhou’s NMA
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
16/ However, we only later found out that this cannot explain all the discrepancies between the two Lancet NMAs and the Cochrane NMA, because the later Lancet NMA by Zhou already included most of the recent trials, and adding trials since then did not alter the overall effect
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
15/ We also included some new trials appearing since the Cochrane meta-analysis, but this didn’t change the overall results. Paper here: linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii...
linkinghub.elsevier.com
Redirecting
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
14/ Additionally, efficacy was also larger in two-arm trials (fluoxetine vs. placebo), compared to multiarm trials where the chance to receive placebo was < 50% (eg duloxetine 30mg - duloxetine 60mg - fluoxetine - placebo), which can lead to different expectation effects and better blinding
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
13/ We found evidence for two mechanisms: first, efficacy was larger in trials sponsored by the producer of fluoxetine (or with associated COIs with the sponsor), as compared to trials where fluoxetine was the comparator drug, investigated in addition to a competing drug.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
12/ So we aimed at explaining the discrepancies. In a first attempt we did our own pairwise meta-analysis and found that efficacy estimates for fluoxetine reduced over time. This is likely related to the “novelty bias” where several mechanisms can be at work to explain a decline of efficacy.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
11/ Therefore, resolving the discrepancy and/or updating the guidelines has some urgency as kids may be exposed to a drug which lacks clinical meaningful efficacy but adverse effects (sexual dysfunctions, sleep problems, suicidality). Now already 5 years have passed…
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
10/ It also has not been acknowledged in guidelines that, with the reduced efficacy estimates for fluoxetine reported in the Cochrane NMA, the evidence does not meet established thresholds of clinical relevance.
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
9/ However, the discrepant findings for fluoxetine between the two Lancet NMAs and the Cochrane NMA remained unexplained in the Cochrane NMA and unacknowledged in clinical guidelines which appeared since then (or were updated afterwards).
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
8/ Consequently, the difference between all drugs and placebo was described as ‘small and unimportant’ according to their criteria (see figure), but also to other common criteria for clinical significance which seem to converge at around SMD 0.5 ebm.bmj.com/content/27/2...
ebm.bmj.com
Estimates of the minimal important difference to evaluate the clinical significance of antidepressants in the acute treatment of moderate-to-severe depression
The efficacy of antidepressants in the acute treatment of moderate-to-severe depression remains a controversial issue. The minimal important difference (MID) is relevant to judge the clinical signific...
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
7/ For background, they used the Childhood Depression Rating Scale CDRS-R (range 17 to 113) as outcome, and the area of equivalence was +/- 5 points. This can be transformed to a SMD with their suggested standard devia notion. Here the results:
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
6/ In 2021, a Cochrane network analysis (Hetrick et al., 2021) reported a substantially smaller effect for fluoxetine: SMD -0.20 (-0.28 to -0.11). The confidence rating was “moderate”. They defined the area of equivalence with placebo as +/- SMD 0.35. www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10....
cochranelibrary.com
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Martin Plöderl @ploederl.bsky.social · 01/10/2026
5/ With GRADE, the confidence in the evidence for fluoxetine vs placebo comparisons was rated as “very low” in both NMAs. Unfortunately, this important information was not mentioned in guideline recommendations that we are aware of.
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