iiinova — where your digital self keeps evolving

"first and foremost,"

000

I mean they're obviously trying to shape the military into something that will help them complete their coup. It's very obvious

020

I disagree, tbh, but this isn't the place for us to duke that one out. Bottom line is it's insane to make the comparison between Ukraine and Palestine and then use it to *argue against organizing vs Israel*. That's some horseshit and a trap no matter how ya slice it

100

So you can accuse me of "twisting" your replies, but if you feel misunderstood, maybe you should have focused on expressing yourself in earnest instead of being a callous jerk. The door remains open, feel free to try again. But things are what they are. Nobody is owed false pretenses to the contrary

000

tim f @timfitz.manapool.nyc · 10h

Oh, spare me. You started this conversation in the least productive way possible, casting aspersions and tossing around ad hominems about people who are advocating for universal liberation and equity. Why? Because you stand against those things, preferring to defend an apartheid instead.

100

This is obviously stupid, racist, and ahistorical, but it's apparently the bit of cope that you need to continue to deny reality, and that's exactly why those who are actively doing the genocide love to recite it.

000

tim f @timfitz.manapool.nyc · 10h

No. Your purpose is to establish a falsehood -- that Hamas militantly opposes Israel out of some ideological or fanatical hatred of Jews -- to help deny the truth that Israel illegally occupies Palestinian land & has tormented, tortured, maimed and slaughtered Palestinians for decades with impunity.

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tim f @timfitz.manapool.nyc · 10h

On the contrary, Gaza has been occupied by Israel continuously since 1967, has no access to the sea, and had no control over its imports and exports. Palestinians have a legal right to militantly resist. Israel has no right to occupy Palestinian land. You are either uninformed or denying a genocide.

000

tim f @timfitz.manapool.nyc · 13h

Comparing Hamas to Hitler and Mussolini is literally the most cooked shit of all time. You are engaging in Holocaust denial, straight up. Hamas is a resistance to an illegal occupation that has lasted 60 years and exists because Palestinians need & are entitled to liberation from Israeli domination.

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tim f @timfitz.manapool.nyc · 13h

You are wrong. The underlying reason is the occupation, apartheid and genocide. You are simply reciting a frame built to justify immoral and illegal actions. Hamas would not exist if Palestinians had liberation, simple as that

100

tim f @timfitz.manapool.nyc · 22h

If you don’t see this as an acknowledgement of Hamas’ weakness… oh what’s the point, you’re acting like you don’t know how names work, because your thesis is “Israel is good, therefore”. No shot you’re ready to acknowledge that it is an 80 year war crime that cannot be glossed over by cope

210

Tbh at this point I’m edging away from miseducated towards personality disorder. You substitute ad hominem for any real defense because your position cannot be defended. You are yelling at people defending the humanity and dignity of each and every human being. To defend an apartheid state (!)

And the fact that you seem to believe any of what I’m saying is figurative is just so frustrating. You are the one speaking figuratively! Your detachment from reality is making you complicit in monstrous things!

100

What I’m trying to get in the way of is my son inheriting a legacy that the generations ahead of him have poisoned beyond recognition. What I’m trying to get in the way of is a series of wild crimes against human dignity that are actively destroying the world. I’m trying to get you to wake tf up.

I assume nothing. Why would opposing Likud put you beyond reproach? The opposition parties are almost exactly as genocidal as Likud. Listen to yourself: yr position is that you love an apartheid state! As it has been since the Nakba. Do you think this amoral incoherence is unfamiliar atp? To anyone?

OK man. If you can't live in reality, if you have to arrogate yourself over the rest of us, the rest of us owe it to each other not to put ourselves out worrying about how you feel. Truth: the reason that Trump was able to do all the harm was that we let his office decide whether to do all the good.

000

And yes, you're making a choice also when you casually mischaracterize the people who oppose your politics, when you put words in their mouths, when you try to use weak dodges like telling people they can't disagree with your politics unless you give them permission. Sad, unfit choices. Very sad.

Your Jewishness is irrelevant to your supremacist, genocidal politics. It in no way excuses them. Just as my family's Jewishness is irrelevant to their opposition to Zionism. Because Jews are human beings, not people born obligated to a specific political view about a state. You are making a choice.

But calling that a genocide is obviously in bad faith, not because I'm closed to a case for that label applying but because you're doing it EXPRESSLY SO YOU CAN PUT IT UP AGAINST ANOTHER GENOCIDE. I'm sorry, angry guy, but you're fucking wrong. Get a grip. You have work to do.

000

When am I supposed to do that? On command? I've been against the defunding of USAID from jump. It's illegal, immoral, and catastrophic. And I also have concerns about how USAID has been part of American soft power that we've long demonstrated we can't be trusted with, including in our abandonment

200

Given all that, it's pretty freaking *obvious* that the only reason you're even taking up that position is that you feel it gives you rhetorical leverage to tsk-tsk the DSA for its appropriate, informed, and consistent position on the genocide in Palestine. It doesn't make shred of sense otherwise.

020

So, even setting aside the fact that the statements you're citing are meaningless and don't matter in any way, the eliminationist impulse you seem to have twds other points of view, including those that support Ukraine but question the strategy, the US' involvement, or who is benefitting, is wrong.

I personally want to see Ukraine fight as long as Ukrainians want to fight, and to beat them all the way back to the border. But do I want to silence and exclude people who raise other important questions, like whether that's actually a smart way to look at it? No, I don't. Neither should you.

I don't know who you're quoting. I've been staunchly pro-Ukraine since long before this phase of Putin's invasion. There are people who are wrong about this on the left. There are many, many more people who have no trouble maintaining loyalty to the Ukrainian people, regardless of their view of NATO

Are we doing the thing where people's views and motives are whatever we need them to be to ignore their truth-telling about mass murder?

I'm sure, but the point is that it doesn't matter actually

Right. Of course, you have no idea what my positions on those are, and don't care, just like you don't care about the *entirely instrumental* fact that we're directly involved in this one. I wish you luck in noticing that your judgments are 100% projection, & in regaining control of your humanity.

The idea that concern about Israel is motivated by antisemitism is actually just incredibly gross and you should unpack why you need that to be the case. And frankly if you spend more time thinking about Palestinians’ humanity, you’ll understand our reasons a lot better than you do now.

000

It makes no sense to pit these things against each other unless you are trying to minimize the one, so I find this really very hard to believe. People in DSA oppose all genocides. We are fixated on organizing to stop the one that we can organize to stop. The idea that DSA is against Ukraine is false

200

Does it make you feel better about defending genocide if you can dismiss the people who oppose it, even if you have to just invent the reasons out of thin air

They’re not, and your inability to recognize that, or unwillingness to be honest about it, is a real strong “tell”.

030

Democracy is not a problem, actually; people are allowed to be wrong. And the number of tankies I have seen being involved is like two

His beliefs are correct though. That’s the point. Nobody needs to be a part of any community to oppose genocide.

So this is called concern-trolling in defense of a genocide, and it’s not something I’m going to engage with

130

Listen, maybe your concern is really in good faith, and you’re welcome to try again to make it feel that way, but next time you try to convince someone of this take you really need to include the context that isn’t so friendly to your claim. What you did here wasn’t on the level.

000

Protestants with icons? There are plenty of icons in Protestantism? And sorry, what part of it would remotely be similar to that?

100

Funny you should say that

000

That *is* actually unreasonable. He makes super clear what he is saying. It is easy to understand that he is talking about the Black parts of Flatbush — the non-enclave parts. You are imposing a structure he is not employing. You seem to be looking, again, for a pretext to dismiss this person.

That feels like a huge leap to me. He’s speaking about his personal experiences and taking care to communicate that he is not generalizing about Jewish people. It feels as if you were looking for something to clip out of context so you could launder a false premise.

Because what DSA is actually being a source of here is antiracism. It is possible to make a mistake in doing so and it does not make him above reproach. But the idea that there is a hostile or anti-Jewish intent here, or any reference to conspiracy, seems clearly mistaken.

100

Here is the entire thread. x.com/cliffconnoll... So, in this context, while it is possible to disagree with what is being said, it is deeply unreasonable to suggest that he is pointing to a Jewish conspiracy. Gonna need you to acknowledge that before we can keep discussing how DSA is “a source”.

x.com

200

Okay so I found the tweet. Are you aware of the context it was posted in? I hope not, because it makes what you’ve chosen to highlight feel very disingenuous. Here is another tweet from the same thread, which overall is about his direct experiences of Orthodox antiblackness.

Cliff Connolly OkE @CliffConnolly • 1/2/24
Don't fall for their claims of victimhood, or their claim to represent all of Judaism either. Jewish people, same as everyone else, are culturally, spiritually, and politically diverse. They have a rich history on the left and can always be found supporting Black struggles.

200

Like I said it seems like a dumb statement and deserves explanation. But the idea that this characterizes DSA is just a straw man. It has nothing to do with anything I’ve seen communicated by, in, or around DSA. What’s important is it stays that way

030

The most confusing thing is suggesting that Orthodox Jews don’t live in Flatbush. I can only surmise that his familiarity with the neighborhood maybe doesn’t cross any of the enclaves and he thinks it’s all Black communities where Orthodox folks own some of the housing

I live very close to Flatbush and pass through it from time to time

Antisemitism is a problem for sure. But why do you assume that DSA isn’t on guard for it? And why do you think it’s a source for it rather than you’re just seeing possible proof of what we both agree: antisemitism can happen anywhere, bc world? What in DSA do you see as structurally encouraging it?

100

Do you live in Flatbush? How do you know what this guy sees? The post seems dumb to me, it deserves to be questioned, but you are both asking the questions as well as answering them incredibly prejudicially. Anyway, nobody is asking anyone to give a shit what this guy thinks. I certainly don’t