Reposted by shmuplations.com
Man, I think I'm a special kind of #gamedev geek, but I find nothing cozier than sitting in a comfy chair with a good drink and reading a @shmuplations.bsky.social article. This is probably my fave so far: shmuplations.com/itoimiyamoto/
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Shigeru Miyamoto x Shigesato Itoi (1989) - shmuplations.com
This lengthy interview captures a high-level meeting of the minds between Shigesato Itoi, Shigeru Miyamoto, and author Seiko Itou.
![[SHIGESATO] ITOI: With Giygas in MOTHER… I feel like we could have refined him so much more, but… well, it's out there now.
[SHIGERU] MIYAMOTO: I know. I really wanted to give it one more shot, right at the very end.
ITOI: For that final form, I'd actually given instructions for it to be like Butoh, that "dance of darkness." Something incredibly frail... like if they were right there in front of you, you'd feel like they'd collapse if you barely touched them. Eerie and beautiful… but that's easier said than done, right? (laughs)
[SEIKOU] ITOU: That sounds… hard. (laughs)
ITOI: I wanted to depict the terror of the weak. But man, it was tough.](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:ejxrxgsmhelhwvsxexpq3zil/bafkreie23xzqjh27i2q7v5jaynorrribathv2g6mo4tl3rluzm5y73xfoa)
![s
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Yoko Shimomura x Michiru Yamane (2023)
This massive interview with Yoko Shimomura and Michiru Yamane originally appeared in the book Game Ongakuka Interview Shuu, released in 2023 and authored by renowned gaming journalist Haruhisa "hally" Tanaka. A musician and engineer himself, Tanaka centers the conversation on Yamane and Shimomura's classical music roots, exploring their formative influences with unprecedented nuance.
Capcom | Konami | Yoko Shimomura | Michiru Yamane
Yoko Shimomura - Born in Hyogo Prefecture. Studied piano and composition at Osaka College of Music Junior College Division, joining Capcom in 1988. She primarily composed arcade game music, including Street Fighter II, and performed live as a member of Capcom's in-house band, Alph Lyla. She joined Square in 1993, working primarily on RPGs, most notably the Live A Live and Kingdom Hearts series. She went freelance in 2003 and has since composed for anime, films, and stage productions.
Michiru Yamane - Born in Kagawa Prefecture. Majored in composition at Aichi Prefectural University of the Arts, studying under the late Bin Kaneda. While studying Western classical music, she discovered computer music production. She joined Konami in 1988, composing music for numerous titles, including the Castlevania series. Later, she studied jazz and polyrhythms at Makoto Kikuchi's private school, integrating these elements into her game scores. She left Konami in 2008 and currently focuses on healing music.
—When did you two first cross paths?
Shimomura: It was in 2008. I believe I paid a visit to the Konami offices.
Yamane: I was thinking about leaving the company around that time, and I wanted to talk to Shimomura as someone who had already gone freelance, so I reached out to her. I think I first learned about Shimomura through Kingdom Hearts. I used to read her blog all the time back then, and I really admired her flexibility and initiative.
—Yamane, how did you end up joining Konami in the first place?
Yamane: I had graduated from music school and was about to secure a position as a part-time teacher at a local high school, but I really wanted a job where I could write music. There weren't any job openings, so I was close to giving up, but then I found Nihon Computer System and Konami. Konami's entrance exam was scheduled earlier.
I've always loved games. Back in high school, I was so hooked on Space Invaders that I practically ruined my eyesight. Even during university, I would constantly visit a friend's boarding house because they had a Famicom. I thought Konami looked like a great place, so I took the exam, and that very same day they called to schedule an executive interview. During our training, we had to study things like the Z80 CPU and general computer architecture. Once I actually started working, it was nothing but composing.
The Capcom sound team from 1990, taken only a couple years after Shimomura (on the left with the Korg) joined the company.
Shimomura: I had to do assembly programming too! I see so many parallels to my own story. I was on track to secure a position at a piano school, but I suddenly found myself wondering, "Is this really what I want?" I loved video games and saw a recruitment listing, so I originally applied to Nintendo, but it wasn't a good fit. I thought Konami looked great too, but they didn't have any openings—though they were hiring part-time staff. (laughs) The only one left was Capcom. Come to think of it, I had actually worked a part-time gig at a Capcom event booth the year before, handing out flyers for the Famicom version of Ghosts 'n Goblins. I thought, "Ah, that place!" and applied. That was in 1988.
Yamane: Wow, we're exactly the same. I joined in '88 too.
—What led you to pursue composition in the first place?
Yamane: I had been taking lessons in piano and electone since I was a child, but my teachers were incredibly strict about never making a single mistake. Then, during a middle school performance, I got so nervous that my mind went completely blank and I couldn't play at all. Ever since that moment, I became absolutely terrified of playing in front of people, which made me want to write music instead. With composition, even if you make a mistake, you can just wipe it away with an eraser.
Shimomura: That's incredibly similar to my experience. I was a piano major in college, but I wasn't good at all. I grew terrified of messing up during performances, and I also realized that I couldn't physically play the ideal piano music I was imagining in my head. If I couldn't play it, I thought, I should just switch to the writing side and let professionals play it for me. I used to worry that turning to composition just because I couldn't cut it at the piano was disrespectful to dedicated composition majors, but in the end, it worked out for the best.
Yamane: At first, computers were so much fun because as long as you put in the time, they would play any phrase exactly how you wanted without a single mistake. I was thrilled to be able to build my own ideal worlds without having to perform them. I only recently started playing the piano myself again. Right before I left Konami, I was asked to play the harpsichord at a game show in Germany. By then, my mindset had shifted, and I was getting burned out on sequencing music anyway, so I finally gave myself permission to play. When I finished playing at the venue, the crowd erupted into a huge cheer, and that was the moment I thought, "Yeah, I think I'm done with the corporate life." Though it wasn't until around 2016 that I started playing in front of crowds regularly again.
Shimomura: Classical music really hammers home that standard of perfection. "You must not make a mistake."
These days Yamane shares her talent on her youtube channel, mainly performing her Castlevania and other game compositions. In the video description Yamane says that this song from Bloodlines was "probably the first song she composed for the Castlevania series."
Yamane: I actually attended a music high school before university. I only chose it because I didn't want to go to a regular academic school and spend all my time studying. Once I enrolled, everyone around me was incredibly talented at the piano, so I was already afraid of performing back then. It was after that, remembering the middle school incident where I froze up on the electone, that I started taking music theory and harmony lessons, setting my sights on the composition department for university.
Shimomura: I wanted to go to a music high school too, but my piano skills were nowhere near that level. I'm envious that you had the chops for it. I always say this, but if I'm reborn, I want to be a pianist. (laughs)
Yamane: If I'm reborn, I want to be a jazz pianist. I really admire them.
The Shared Experience of the TV Generation
—Considering how close you are in age and background, I imagine you listened to a lot of the same music.
Yamane: Where should we start? Yellow Magic Orchestra?
Shimomura: When I was in high school, I was hospitalized for appendicitis. A friend brought me a YMO album with Snakeman Show comedy sketches interspersed between the music. "Listen to this to cheer yourself up."
Yamane: That must have been Zoushoku.
Shimomura: I had just had surgery, but it made me laugh so hard. "Hahaha! Ow, it hurts!" That's my main memory of YMO. (laughs) That friend was a Haruomi Hosono fan, and another friend loved Yukihiro Takahashi, so I felt like I had to say I liked Ryuichi Sakamoto. (laughs) From there, I went backward and checked out YMO's catalog and a bit of their solo work. I wouldn't say I was obsessed, but everyone from our generation passed through that phase.
Yamane: My absolute favorite is Ryuichi Sakamoto's solo debut, especially Thousand Knives. I listened to that and the Kakutougi Session album Summer Nerves on heavy rotation. There were chord progressions in Thousand Knives that I couldn't figure out by ear, which made it all the more fascinating. When I can't figure out a progression for a song I love, it leaves a massive impression on me. That album deeply influenced me.
Sakamoto's arrangement work for artists like Eikichi Yazawa, Circus, and Taeko Onuki was also brilliant; he really stood out. I respect him so much. Honestly, my shift to the composition department was largely due to Sakamoto's influence. I wanted to be just like him. To achieve that, I went to study composition theory under a teacher who had graduated from Tokyo University of the Arts. That teacher's time at the university slightly overlapped with Sakamoto's, which alone made me so happy and motivated me to study.
La Femme Chinoise, one of YMO's early hits from 1978. It's impossible to overstate how influential YMO was on Japanese musicians of that era and early video game composers.
—So your introduction to YMO came strictly through Ryuichi Sakamoto.
Yamane: I think I discovered YMO only after becoming obsessed with Sakamoto. I had the track Tong Poo on heavy rotation. I listened to every single artist he mentioned in his interview articles—people like Steve Reich. That led me to Japan, and I listened to Tin Drum to death. I grew to love Kraftwerk too. I even listened to contemporary classical music, thinking, "Sakamoto must have studied things like this." I listened to Akiko Yano through that same connection, and I remember being devastated when they got married. (laughs) That's how big of a fan I was. But during my time at Konami, I never mentioned any of this to anyone around me. I thought they'd just think, "Wow, what a nerd." It's not like that anymore, though.
Shimomura: Speaking of YMO, I loved the song La Femme Chinoise. I found it incredibly interesting how they took ethnomusicological elements and infused them into pop music. They didn't just copy it; they digested it into their own style. In that sense, they might have influenced me down the line.
—That feels like a direct precursor to your work on Street Fighter II.
Shimomura: Their sound was so pop-heavy that I almost felt guilty liking it. (laughs) I had a strict classical upbringing, but up to a certain point, I listened to popular Japanese kayōkyoku music just like anyone else. When I was a little kid, I was singing along to Hideki Saijo's Jonetsu no Arashi when my father snapped at me, saying, "Stop singing such disgraceful songs." After that, my interest shifted to the piano, and I moved away from pop music for a while. But in the sixth grade, I was blown away by Crystal King's Daitokai, which brought me right back. I started watching music chart shows like The Best Ten. The very first records I bought with my allowance were Daitokai and Saki Kubota's Ihoujin. I was also heavily into Godiego back then.
Yamane: My introduction to pop music came through television, with things like Seiji Tanaka's Beautiful Sunday or Megumi Asaoka. I listened to Twist too. A bit later on, it was Seiko Matsuda. Television also got me into foreign film scores. I'll never forget Henry Mancini's theme for Columbo, with that striking whistling sound. I also loved the ending themes for programs like Monday Road Show and Friday Road Show—things like Ray Anthony's The Party's Over or Pierre Porte's Cris d'amour.
Shimomura: I absolutely adored Morton Gould's arrangement of So in Love, which served as the ending theme for Sunday Foreign Film Theater.
Yamane: Oh, I loved that one too!
Shimomura: My Dad would call out to me, "Your favorite song is playing!" and I would run to the TV just to catch that specific piece. At first, I thought it was Rachmaninoff, but then I realized, "No, this feels more modern," and searched for the recording much later. Speaking of movies I watched on TV back then, the theme from Gone with the Wind, Tara's Theme, was unforgettable. I also really loved Lawrence of Arabia. I had absolutely no idea what the plot was about, but my fascination with Middle Eastern sounds definitely traces back to that theme song. That material is undeniably part of my musical roots.
Morton Gould's arrangement of Cole Porter's So In Love, a favorite of both Yamane and Shimomura. The opening and closing themes for the weekly broadcast of movies on Japanese TV (which are still called "Road Shows") exposed many Japanese youths to Western classical and film music. They arguably constitute a kind of "lost media" and their influence is largely unknown in the West.
Awakening to Western Music
Yamane: When I was in fifth or sixth grade, our family finally got a stereo system. I listened to the included LP records constantly—Oscar Peterson's jazz and Julio Iglesias. At home, since my mother ran a cosmetics retail shop, door-to-door salesmen selling imported records would often drop by. My parents loved music, so they bought them regularly, which is how I got exposed to European pop. That's how I discovered Nini Rosso's Il Silenzio.
Shimomura: We had Nini Rosso records at our house too, along with Claude Ciari, because my father loved them.
Yamane: Eventually, I started buying records myself. The first ones were by the Bay City Rollers. Between the Beatles and the Bay City Rollers, I was firmly in the Bay City Rollers camp.
Shimomura: They were incredibly popular, weren't they? If you bought magazines like Heibon or Myojo, they always came with their posters. Even though I bought them, I'd act all cool and pretend I wasn't interested. (laughs)
Yamane: Later on, I started reading Music Life and discovered Angel and Queen. I listened to pretty much all the Western rock music of that era, reading Yoichi Shibuya's liner notes. I also recorded music off the radio all the time. To list the artists I got into that way: Billy Joel, Barry Manilow, Burt Bacharach, and Eric Carmen. Carmen famously incorporated Rachmaninoff into All by Myself, and the piano phrasing in the middle left a huge impression on me. I also fell in love with a love song called Just Once from Quincy Jones's album The Dude and listened to it constantly. That and Michael McDonald's song What a Fool Believes. A lot of people have covered that one. It was another song where I couldn't figure out the chord progression. I definitely had that one on heavy rotation too. As for instrumental tracks, I liked tracks like Barry White's Love Theme.
—So back then, if a hit song resonated with you, you'd listen to it no matter what?
Yamane: Exactly. A bit later on, it was things like The Knack's My Sharona and Chic's Le Freak. I even listened to a bit of punk rock like the Sex Pistols. After that phase, I pivoted to dance music and New Romantic styles—M's Pop Muzik, Depeche Mode, Yazoo, Boy George, Panache, Duran Duran…
Shimomura: If you were recording music off the radio back then, you absolutely could not escape Duran Duran. For our high school bunkasai (cultural festival), we actually made Duran Duran costumes, put their music on, and mimicked their choreography. That's how much we loved them. I also really liked Roger Taylor back then. That's the trajectory I took: from the Bay City Rollers to UK music, which eventually led me to Queen. I've always loved UK music.
Shimomura: How about the Pet Shop Boys? I loved them.
Yamane: Oh, definitely. I listened to them too.
Shimomura: My interest in Western music came pretty late, right around when Michael Jackson blew up. Before that, it was strictly classical music and a few Japanese pop songs. My father was quite strict about music and disliked Western music and rock.
Yamane: Our house was the exact opposite. When I was small, my mother would watch bands like Yes or Elvis Presley on TV and record the audio onto cassette tapes. That's what got me into Western music. It's surprising to hear that you didn't go through a rock phase as a kid, Shimomura. Considering your work on games like Street Fighter II, you write rock-styled tracks so effortlessly.
Shimomura: Not at all! I barely knew left from right; I just somehow managed to scrape my way there. The whole reason I thought about trying game music in the first place was because I heard Dragon Quest and thought, "If it's classical-styled music like this, even I might be able to do it." (Sorry Sugiyama Sensei!!) But at the time, Capcom wasn't making RPGs, so I had no choice but to write action game music. When I first joined, I couldn't write a single line for bass or drums.
Konami's Exciting Soccer OST. It must have been both inspiring and intimidating to be working alongside the Konami Kukeiha Club, who were at the peak of their creativtity in the late 80s when Yamane first joined.
Yamane: I was exactly the same when it came to writing for action games. I didn't know how to program drums at all, so it was a massive struggle. On top of that, the entire concept of using a seventh or major seventh chord as the tonic (the opening chord of a song) never even occurred to me. In academic music theory, they only ever taught us that the tonic was a standard C major triad, do-mi-so. I ended up listening to older titles like Exciting Soccer to see how my seniors did it, realizing, "Oh, you can do it like this!" That blew my world wide open.
A Purely Classical Upbringing
—Shimomura, you mentioned having a "purely classical upbringing." How did that come about?
Shimomura: I've always loved the piano. In elementary school, I would use my allowance almost every month to buy individual sheet music pieces that cost about 150 yen each. Seeing that, my father gave me a classical masterpiece cassette collection for my birthday that featured those exact pieces. For a long time, that tape was the only recorded music I owned, so I listened to it exclusively. But eventually, I started diving into my father's classical record collection, and that's when I truly got hooked.
By the time I was in middle school, I'd listen to pop music but walk around with this slightly insufferable attitude like, "Sure, but my favorites are Ravel and Rachmaninoff. I'm not like the rest of you." (laughs) I listened to a wide spectrum from the Romantic era to early modernism, but I didn't care much for Classical era composers like Mozart or Beethoven. I was just far too deeply in love with the Impressionists. I can appreciate other genres and think they sound cool, but at my core, I'm a classical nerd through and through. Even today, if I think about what to listen to before going to bed, it's always classical music.
Yamane: How do you feel about Chopin? I'm particularly fond of his Piano Sonata No. 3 in B minor.
Shimomura: I love Chopin. The final movement of the third sonata is one of my top two favorite piano pieces of all time. The opening is spectacular; it gives me chills. I loved it so much that I was fully prepared to play it for my graduation exam, but due to various circumstances, I ended up yielding it to another student... a bitter memory for me. I had worked hard for two years looking forward to playing that for my final exam!
Yamane: I had the LP version performed by Alexis Weissenberg. It's a gorgeous piece, packed with emotion. Around the time I was leaving Konami, I actually practiced it for a bit, but I ended up giving up. The left hand plays in quadruplets while the right hand does triplets, a polyrhythm.
Shimomura: I never managed to play it to my satisfaction either. I loved it so much that I actually ended up recreating it via MIDI programming.
Yamane: We all do that, don't we? (laughs) I've done the exact same thing because I couldn't play it myself, specifically with Ravel's Jeux d'eau. Ravel was incredibly difficult.
The final movement of Chopin's Sonata No. 3. Loved by both Yamane and Shimomura, I can certainly hear an affinity in some of Yamane's Castlevania work.
Shimomura: I love listening to Ravel, but I have a tendency to want to play everything overly dramatically, so in that sense, I find his work unplayable for me. I used to play only the brief climax of Scarbo. Going back to Chopin, I also love his Etude Op. 10, No. 4. During my first year at university, whenever I was out in the courtyard, I could hear that piece constantly. It was a required piece for the third-year transfer exam, so everyone was practicing it everywhere. I remember feeling absolute despair, thinking, "Am I supposed to be able to play like this in a year?! That's impossible." It's a piece that caused me a lot of frustration. When it comes to performances, the faster it is, the more I love it. I just fundamentally love fast playing. I always assume that's why my own compositions end up being so fast. (laughs)
Yamane: I think that also shows your disposition for rock music. When it comes to intense pieces, I love the Revolutionary Etude (Op. 10, No. 12), though I can't play the whole thing.
Shimomura: I practiced that one too. I just love intense songs like that. It's classical, but it possesses this hidden spark that feels like it could merge with rock and sound incredibly cool. I definitely had a desire to do something like that. My dilemma was simply that I couldn't play well enough to pull it off. There is a famous pianist named Hayato Sumino (Cateen) who is incredibly popular on YouTube, and I've been watching his videos a lot lately. He does everything I ever wanted to do, so I absolutely adore him. The video that hooked me was one where he plays Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2.
—I've noticed that Rachmaninoff's name has come up several times now.
Shimomura: It's said that Rachmaninoff had massive hands, capable of reaching from C all the way to G. It's incredibly difficult if you have small hands. But I still find myself wanting to play his music, to the point where I want to kick myself. (laughs)
Yamane: Speaking of Rachmaninoff, Piano Concerto No. 2 is probably his most famous work. It's a magnificent piece, and the orchestration is brilliant.
Shimomura: I love every single movement. It's a piece packed to the brim with pianistic catharsis. I'd also like to mention his Prelude in C-sharp minor, Op. 3, No. 2. Mao Asada skated to it, and people often refer to it as "The Bells" these days.
"You Should Start Studying Composition Right Now!"
Shimomura: Going back to Chopin again, when I was around the second grade, I wrote a makeshift, impromptu piece called Gekiryu (Torrent) that was essentially a minor-key reimagining of the Minute Waltz. For some reason, Square Enix ended up broadcasting the original recording on a livestream, and they even had a professional pianist perform it. I feel like I owe the Minute Waltz an apology. (laughs) That was the second song I ever wrote, and it's my oldest surviving composition.
[footnote 1] "I've searched up and down for the Square-Enix livestream containing this piece, but couldn't find it. Drop me a line if you happen to know!"](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:d2sgh4umddjehf5knleespgp/bafkreibx4bd7b2ozgqcbkp2marsaxoxtf7xuraaue3ojmdcxsm42gx4l44)
