This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd welcome Justin Lemme back with a conversation that takes the show from the open road to online safety. Justin recounts his family trip to Devils Tower in Wyoming, including a quick Buc-ee’s shopping mission and a revelation that surprises the guys: he’s ready to buy an RV. That sends Shawn into familiar territory, sharing his experiences with campers, layouts, maintenance, and the debate over buying new or used. Naturally, technology finds its way into the discussion through solar panels, Starlink, and Shawn’s Raspberry Pi media server for entertainment while camping.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd dive into Apple’s latest announcements, including the new foldable iPhone Duo and the iPhone 18 Pro and Pro Max. Shawn admits foldable phones simply aren’t for him, while Andy runs through some of the Duo’s more interesting features, including its larger folding display, split-screen multitasking, camera capabilities and the return of fingerprint authentication. The conversation expands into iOS updates, Apple silicon and just how much faster modern Macs have become for demanding jobs like video rendering. Then comes a confession many tech enthusiasts can relate to: …

Portable entertainment doesn’t have to be limited to a small smartphone screen. During this KMSB Fox 11 Tech segment, Andy Taylor talks with Tyler Butler and shares two ways to make mobile video viewing a little bigger. The first is a simple smartphone screen magnifier priced at under $20 from Seancheer. The phone slides behind the magnifying panel, creating a larger-looking image without batteries, cables or a power connection. For a more complete entertainment experience, Andy demonstrates the Monster Vision 2. The portable system features a 15.6-inch 1920-by-1080 display, built-in speakers, an over-the-air TV tuner, HDMI connectivity for compatible streaming devices, Bluetooth, FM radio and a microphone input for karaoke or portable PA use.

Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd cover everything from portable entertainment and Smart TV privacy to AI-generated true crime, cutting the cable cord, Windows 11 privacy, security cameras and some surprisingly creative corners of social media in this Week's TechtalkRadio Show. Andy kicks things off with a look at the Monster Vision 2, which we have since found has been discontinued by Monster Audio! The Monster Vision 2 still available from stock through retailers is an all-in-one portable entertainment system featuring a 15-inch Full HD display, built-in battery, FM radio, Bluetooth, HDMI, USB playback and even a microphone input.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd and Justin Lemme get together for a wide-ranging conversation that begins with Shawn’s continuing cleanup after a basement flood—and quickly turns into a discussion after Andy notes that some Home Repair Companies are using A.I. to create recreations of home disasters focusing on how artificial intelligence is changing the media we see and hear every day. Andy brings up the growing number of AI-generated television commercials, including ads where the visuals—and possibly even the music—have that unmistakable AI feel. Shawn talks about his experience creating parody music with…

The crew is back together for Episode 486 of TechtalkRadio, with Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd and Justin Lemme catching up on a whirlwind few weeks of technology, travel, severe weather and some very interesting new gear. Segment One – Severe Weather, Gen Con & Backup Power Shawn has been on the move, including a vendor trip to Canada that had him flying private while severe storms were moving through Indiana. The guys talk about the powerful storms and tornado warnings back home and share some of the weather resources they use, including Weather.gov, Zoom.Earth and RadarOmega.

On a recent Talking Tech with Andy Taylor segment on KMSB Fox 11, Andy joined Tyler Butler to take a look at the latest ASUS Zenbook DUO, a laptop that takes the traditional notebook design and doubles down—literally—with two 14-inch displays. The Zenbook DUO isn't an entirely new concept. Andy first featured the dual-screen design back in 2024, when ASUS demonstrated how a laptop could transform from a traditional keyboard-and-screen setup into a portable dual-monitor workstation. For 2026, ASUS has refined that idea considerably, making the new DUO feel less like an experiment and more like a polished everyday productivity machine.

For years, Apple laptops have been known for premium performance—and premium prices. But during this week's Talking Tech segment on KMSB Fox 11, Andy Taylor showcased a new option designed to make the Mac experience more affordable: the MacBook Neo. Starting at just $699, the MacBook Neo is aimed at students, families, first-time Mac users, and anyone considering making the switch from Windows. Featuring a bright 13-inch Retina display, lightweight design, up to 16 hours of battery life, and Apple's efficient A18 processor, the Neo delivers plenty of performance for everyday computing tasks including web browsing, email, office work, social media, streaming, and light content creation.

For this Week's TechtalkRadio Show, it opens with a look back at the Fourth of July before diving into the growing role of AI in photography and digital preservation. Andy and Shawn discuss the pros and cons of using AI tools like Gemini to restore old family photos versus manually enhancing them in Photoshop. They also share practical advice on scanning decades of photographs, preserving handwritten notes on the backs of prints, cleaning aging photos safely, and choosing the right equipment—including Epson's FastFoto scanner and Super 8 film digitizers. Shawn also shares his surprise at the comeback of analog photography, disposable cameras, and traditional film.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd, and Justin Lemme reunite after Justin's unforgettable trip to Japan, where technology bargains, innovative gadgets, and breathtaking photography took center stage. From exploring Tokyo, Osaka, and Hiroshima to shopping eight-story electronics stores and testing cutting-edge portable cooling devices, Justin shares how favorable exchange rates and Japan's technology culture made for one incredible adventure. The conversation then shifts to a topic that affects every digital consumer: Do you really own the content you purchase? The team discusses Sony's decision to remove hundreds of previously purchased movies from customer libraries due to licensing changes, raising important questions about digital ownership versus physical media.

Fast, Smart, and Paper-Free: Taking a Look at the Epson WorkForce ES-590W Scanner Going paperless has never been easier thanks to the Epson WorkForce ES-590W, a high-speed document scanner designed for home offices, small businesses, and anyone looking to organize years of paperwork. On this week's Talking Tech with Andy Taylor on KMSB Fox 11, Andy demonstrated just how far scanning technology has come. Unlike the slow, single-page scanners of the past, the ES-590W features a 100-sheet Automatic Document Feeder (ADF) capable of scanning up to 45 pages per minute…

Buc-ee's, Budget Macs & The Future of AI Photography | TechTalkRadio Episode 483 This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd cover everything from the grand opening of Arizona's first Buc-ee's to Apple's surprising new MacBook Neo, while also diving into Nintendo's latest announcements, AI photography, retro gaming, and listener questions. The show kicks off with a discussion about the excitement surrounding Buc-ee's arrival in Arizona, exploring why the famous travel center has become such a cultural phenomenon and why thousands lined up for its opening. From there, the conversation shifts into technology shopping during Prime Week, with practical advice on buying laptops and why physically handling a computer before purchasing can sometimes be more valuable than simply chasing the lowest online price.

Ever wondered what happened to those old home movies, VHS tapes, and grainy digital videos sitting on hard drives or tucked away in storage boxes? In this week's FOX 11 Tech Segment, Andy Taylor explores how modern AI-powered restoration tools are helping preserve family memories and breathe new life into aging video footage. Using software from Topaz Labs, Andy demonstrates how advanced video enhancement models can reduce noise, improve clarity, sharpen details, and upscale low-resolution footage into high-definition video. The segment highlights Topaz's Starlight Precise 2.5 model, one of the latest tools designed specifically for video restoration and enhancement.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd dive headfirst into the frustrating side of modern technology — from failing routers and broken RCS messaging to voice assistant chaos, factory resets, and smart home devices that suddenly “forget” they exist. Andy shares a week-long battle with his Google Pixel 9 XL, Wi-Fi outages, and disappearing Wyze cameras, while Shawn discusses the reality of maintaining complex home networks, cloud backups, and why keeping your tech ecosystem organized can save massive headaches later. The conversation shifts into digital archiving and media preservation, including photo scanning, organizing decades of family memories, and why fewer people are printing photographs today.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd explore the tech, gaming, and gadget stories making headlines — along with one of the most creative gaming accessories we’ve ever featured. From addictive mobile games and ultra-thin laptops to AI assistants that still get things wrong, this episode blends humor, nostalgia, and real-world techtalk. Andy and Shawn discuss the surprisingly addictive Bubble Pop Origin mobile game, the new ASUS Zenbook A16 with its stunning 3K OLED display and Snapdragon AI-powered processor, plus what Apple may reveal during WWDC. The conversation also dives into Copilot, Gemini, ChatGPT, and why AI tools still require a healthy dose of skepticism.

This week on 13 News on Fox 11, Tech Expert Andy Taylor highlighted a few family-friendly tech projects that combine fun with STEM learning. One of the featured products was the popular Snap Circuits line from Elenco, designed for kids ages 8 and up. These hands-on kits allow children to build working electronic projects using snap-together components — no tools, glue, or soldering required. With over 100 projects included right out of the box, Snap Circuits continues to be a favorite for introducing kids to electronics and engineering concepts in an easy-to-understand way.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Travel tech, Aviation apps, Retro family discoveries, AI photo restoration, Streaming frustrations, and even a little Bubble Pop obsession are covered with Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd, and Justin Lemme The Episode kick off by talking about Justin’s upcoming trip to Japan and the tech challenges that come with international travel — from voltage differences and outlet adapters to keeping devices charged during a 12-hour flight. Justin tells us why getting the adaptors for the country you are visiting is important. The conversation also dives into airline Wi-Fi and finding out if…

Mother’s Day is just around the corner, and technology can help make the memories even more meaningful. This week, Andy Taylor shares how Google’s Gemini AI tools can breathe new life into older family photos — enhancing faded, blurry, or low-quality images into keepsakes perfect for sharing with Mom and loved ones. It’s a modern twist on preserving family memories and a thoughtful gift idea that feels both personal and heartfelt. Also featured is a fun and affordable tech gadget from Jteman — a Bluetooth speaker and phone stand combo that’s perfect for video calls, streaming music, or keeping recipes and social media videos in view while delivering enhanced sound.

For this Week's Segment on KMSB Fox 11 from 04/06/2026 We shared the demise of the Sora Video Generation Platform and at the time reminded those that had checked it out to download thier generations. We also featured a look at the growth of the Suno Music Generation Platform. There are many different applications for this service that can allow you to take something you have written and create a song out of it and keep for yourself or, subscribe and share with others. It seems that using Suno is about learning the many different prompts to get the style you want.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd, and Justin Lemme kick off with Shawn sharing a wild camping story—where YouTube weather streamer Ryan Hall helped them track a fast-moving storm that quickly turned dangerous. It sparks a discussion about the growing role of independent content creators and how platforms like YouTube are reshaping how we consume real-time information and entertainment The guys break down the latest news from Apple with Tim Cook stepping aside as CEO of Apple and John Ternus stepping into the role. The team explores Apple’s successes, missteps, and whether the company can catch up in the rapidly evolving AI space.

In this week’s Talking Tech segment on KMSB Fox 11 News 13, Andy Taylor explores a growing trend in technology—tools and toys designed to help kids take a break from screens while still engaging with interactive and educational experiences. After showcasing a variety of gadgets at the Sunflower Computer Club in Marana, one standout featured previously on Talking Tech was the NEX Playground, an interactive system that turns your TV into a motion-based gaming experience. Kids can physically participate in games, blending screen time with movement and social interaction.

👉 “Watch or listen below:” This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd, and Justin Lemme pack the show with a mix of practical advice, industry trends, consumer tech insight, and one very relatable AI troubleshooting story. The episode opens with a conversation inspired by World Backup Day, as the team discusses whether people still need traditional backups now that so much of daily life already lives in the cloud. From iCloud and Google Photos to NAS systems and mirrored local storage, the discussion looks at the difference between convenience, redundancy, and true disaster recovery.

Watch or listen to this week’s TechtalkRadio episode as we cover remote desktop access, a MacBook Neo review, and social media marketing tips from a successful content creator.

If you’ve just upgraded to a new smartphone like the iPhone 17e or Samsung Galaxy S26, the next step is finding the right accessories to get the most out of your device. In this KMSB Fox 11 News 13 tech segment, Andy Taylor highlights some of the latest innovations in smartphone accessories—from stylish and functional MagSafe cases to powerful high-speed USB hubs. Featured in this segment are products from CaseKoo, including the Linku strap case designed for comfortable, hands-free carrying, and the Matte Magic MagSafe cases that offer flexible viewing angles and easy wireless charging.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd kick things off with a real-time look at severe weather, storm tracking, and the growing role of independent meteorologists on YouTube. Shawn shares how live storm coverage from creator Ryan Hall has changed the way many people follow dangerous weather, offering faster, more detailed updates than traditional local broadcasts in some cases. The conversation also dives into storm preparedness, from generators and backup power to radios, fuel, and having a family plan in place when rough weather rolls in. The show also revisits one of the week’s most talked-about tech topics: the new…

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy and Shawn open with condolences for Justin, who’s away for a couple weeks after a loss in the family. From there, the conversation swings into Shawn’s very real-world tech life as a broadcast engineer at Notre Dame—juggling a marathon Saturday that included multiple live productions across different networks and platforms. They also touch on the frustration of missing major industry conferences like NAB and Infocom due to schedule collisions, while still keeping an eye on the one event Shawn refuses to miss: Gen Con…

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor, Justin Lemme, and Shawn DeWeerd are finally all back in the same episode—and they waste no time diving into the biggest tech vibes of the week: Super Bowl ads, AI overload, and the growing feeling that nothing we see online can be trusted at face value. The crew kicks things off talking about how Super Bowl commercials just don’t hit like they used to—especially now that so many ads get spoiled early and a wave of “AI everything” messaging has officially arrived.

TechtalkRadio kicks off Valentine’s weekend 2026 with a practical update on home security cameras—and why this topic is suddenly front-of-mind for a lot of people. Andy explains how cloud-based doorbells can still capture (and upload) footage even without an active paid plan, what “short-window” history looks like on some systems, and why notifications (including email alerts) can matter when you’re trying to piece together a timeline. From there, Andy compares camera approaches: cloud-first doorbells like Google Nest, local-recording options that use microSD loop recording, and higher-resolution setups like Reolink (including solar-powered placements for property coverage).

This Week’s TechtalkRadio Show kicks off with the crew welcoming Justin Lemme back—and immediately diving into his newly installed Tesla Powerwall. Justin explains how pairing rooftop solar with a home battery solves the “we generate power when nobody’s home” problem, letting him store daytime energy and run off the battery during peak-rate hours (and stay powered through outages). He also highlights the app-driven control, clean/conditioned power benefits (surge absorption), and the long-term value proposition—especially for sunny climates like Arizona—while Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd ask the practical questions listeners would ask (

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd deliver another wide-ranging episode that blends practical tech advice, nostalgic gaming, and real-world perspective—without taking things too seriously. The show opens with a discussion about content creation, audio gear, and accessibility, as the guys compare microphones, wireless lavs, and mixers while discussing captions, video platforms, and the ongoing challenges of cloud-based workflows. From there, listener questions drive the conversation into mobile video editing, USB formatting, and the never-ending debate over whether thumb drives are outdated—or still essential. Shawn revisits classic titles through modern retro hardware, sparking a broader discussion about digital ownership, microtransactions, and why older games still feel more complete than many modern releases.

“This Show is a Joke!” absolutely earns its title. Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd, and Justin Lemme kick things off with the kind of chaotic chemistry listeners love, starting with a weather check that makes no sense: Colorado is bizarrely warm, Indiana is buried under snow and “freezing fog,” and everyone agrees the forecast has officially gone off the rails. From there, the conversation slides straight into post-CES chatter, where “everything is AI”… except the stuff that still manages to surprise you and even have you make a "Ewwww Face"

On this week’s Technology "Talking Tech" segment on KMSB Fox 11, Andy Taylor introduced viewers to one of the most eye-catching drones on the market right now: the Antigravity A1, a first-of-its-kind 8K, 360-degree drone powered by Insta360 imaging technology. With cameras positioned above and below the aircraft, the A1 can capture immersive aerial footage while digitally removing the drone itself from the final shot—creating stunning, cinematic visuals that look more like a video game than real life. Andy explained how the Antigravity A1 stays under the FAA’s 250-gram limit with the standard battery, avoiding registration requirements, while larger batteries push it over that threshold for pilots who want longer flight times and expanded capabilities.

TechtalkRadio kicks off 2026 with Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd diving into what everyone’s talking about — including the Stranger Things finale buzz and the rumor of a “secret” alternate episode (conspiracy theories included). Since recording, we find out that it is exactly that, a Rumor! From there, the guys slide into full nostalgia mode: retro gaming, childhood memories, and why classic consoles still hit differently — from Mario Kart 64 and Ocarina of Time, to the reality check of firing up an old Wii and realizing… the graphics don’t look like you remembered.

In this KMSB Fox 11 Segment, Andy Taylor takes a hands-on look at the ASUS ROG Ally (Xbox Edition), a powerful handheld gaming PC that blurs the line between console gaming and everyday computing. This compact device runs Windows 11, giving users full access to their Xbox library, PC games, and familiar desktop apps—all in one portable package. Andy breaks down what makes the ROG Ally stand out, including its AMD Ryzen Z-series processor, fast SSD storage, impressive graphics performance, and built-in cooling designed to handle demanding games. He also discusses real-world battery life, fast charging, and how gameplay varies depending on the titles you’re running—from casual classics to graphics-intensive AAA games.

We have been running behind so wanted to make sure we share these episodes that Aired but have not been posted. Hope you enjoy them! Linda Chorney at the 54th Annual GRAMMY Awards February 12, 2012 Andy Taylor takes a Pie to the Face New Audiobook Available This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd kick things off in full holiday mode with a look at Microsoft’s latest seasonal merch drop—highlighting the surprisingly steep price tag on the new “ugly sweater,” the retro logos packed into the design (and a few questionable modern additions), plus the equally head-scratching 50th anniversary Crocs and other oddball collectibles on Microsoft’s revamped merchandise site.

This week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd kick things off with retro gaming nostalgia, sparked by Shawn’s new Analogue 3D Nintendo 64 console. They reminisce about classic titles like GoldenEye, Mario 64, Zelda, and Perfect Dark, discuss the rising value of physical game cartridges, and debate whether rare sealed games should be played or preserved. The conversation highlights why many gamers are rediscovering the joy of owning physical media in an era dominated by digital licenses and always-online requirements. Andy announces he will be able to preview the upcoming…

This week’s TechtalkRadio Show kicks off with Andy, Shawn, and Justin joking about cold basements, impulse buying, and Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals before diving into a discussion with former FBI spy hunter and cybersecurity expert Eric O’Neill, author of Spies, Lies, and Cybercrime. Eric explains why he hates the Hollywood “hoodie hacker” stereotype and argues that today’s cybercriminals operate more like spies—well-funded, organized, and focused on long-term reconnaissance and deception. He walks through how overseas criminal syndicates abuse the dark web, cryptocurrency, and lax enforcement in countries like Russia and China to attack victims in the U.S.

In a recent tech segment, Andy Taylor was In-Studio at KMSB Fox 11 News 13 to spotlight the new RokuOS-powered projector that aims to bring the full streaming‑TV experience into a portable, plug‑and‑play package. Unlike traditional projectors that require external streaming devices, this projector has the Roku OS built in — giving you direct access to the Roku Channel along with popular subscription services like Netflix, Disney+, and Hulu. Andy highlights its portability (under four pounds), its ability to project a screen from 40 to 150 inches depending on the room, and the convenience of hooking up external audio via Bluetooth for a stronger sound experience.

For this Week’s TechtalkRadio Show, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd take a look at some of the big stories including Andy thinking about a purchase of the Meta Ray Ban AI Smart Glasses which helped develop this week show title. “I Don’t Want to Become a Meme” The guy’s circle back to the continuing coverage of the now-infamous Coca-Cola AI holiday ad—which featured glitchy puppies, rubbery robot-people and just noticed vanishing truck axles. While Andy enjoyed the ad for its holiday message one listener had asked about the Ad he did think delivers and for the best of his knowledge, No AI!

For this week’s Techtalkradio Show, it kicked off with 2 climates, pitting Andy Taylor’s sunny Arizona desert against Shawn DeWeerd’s brutal, snowy reality near South Bend, Indiana. Shawn described his location as a literal “frozen tundra,” buried under nearly a foot of snow, Shawn shared a couple of photos and suggested a real-time look at the Campus via an EarthCam feed. The most epic cold-weather story involved a collegiate rugby championship at Notre Dame, where players, during a massive blizzard, played for hours in shorts, proving that some athletes are simply built differently (and that their tech gear is, thankfully, heated!).

Subscribe This week’s TechtalkRadio show is joined by Andy Taylor, Shawn DeWeerd and returning after an absence Justin Lemme. The guys opened up with some radio war stories and how On-Air has changed in many large cities but it does open up a even bigger conversation about where broadcasting is headed—automation, “canned” shifts, and even AI DJs which has already been experimented with. That segued into a broader AI discussion: hype vs. reality (is there an “AI bubble”?). Shawn is not happy with the AI Enabled toys we should see around the holidays and questions how some can hold back kids’ creativity and also raises privacy concerns.

Subscribe This Week's TechtalkRadio Show kicks off with Shawn and Andy looking back on last weeks show and discussing a couple of Web Distractions such as TV.Garden only to find out from some viewers to the Social Media Video Post also had a site to share, Radio.Garden. This Site features Radio stations from around the globe, now including KGVY. Shawn adds WebSDR.org for listening to live amateur radio signals worldwide. That rolls into a hands-on ham segment: GMRS nostalgia, the FCC’s clamp-down on internet-linked repeaters. Shawn points to…

In This week's KMSB News13 Segment, Andy shows you how to instantly remove photo backgrounds with a website Remove.bg — It's fun to play around with but could be a time saver for those working to adjust a photo. No Photoshop skills required — While the latest version of Photoshop from Adobe can accomplish pretty much the same results, this is fun to take for a spin. We also take a fun look at Google’s Frightgeist, revealing the top trending Halloween costumes across the country. Which is the top trending costume?

Subscribe For this week on TechtalkRadio, Andy Taylor and Shawn DeWeerd tackle the story that shook the web — the massive AWS outage that left millions wondering if their internet had vanished. The pair break down what really happened when Amazon’s U.S. East-1 region went down and how a simple DNS failure can ripple through nearly every service we use. From Coinbase and Reddit to Roku, Robinhood, and even smart-home devices, the hosts explain how so much of our digital life runs through the same narrow pipes — and why that can be a dangerous single point of failure.

This week’s Talking Tech Segment on KMSB Fox 11 News 13 tackles the looming October 14th deadline when Microsoft officially ends free security updates for Windows 10. While Windows 11 is the clear upgrade path, not everyone has the hardware — or the desire — to switch. Microsoft is offering two “carrots” for those staying behind: sign up for their Extended Security Update program and allow backups to OneDrive to get one free year of patches, or pay $30 per device annually for continued security support. Both come with caveats, including limited storage and ongoing costs.

Windows 10’s end-of-support dominated this week’s show, as Andy, Shawn, and Justin tackled the panic, the realities, and the options. From Microsoft’s ESU path ($30 for Home, $60 for Pro) to the confusing OneDrive “free” backup catch (that 5GB cap!), the crew broke down who really needs to move now and who can safely plan. They also dug into the TPM 2.0 / Secure Boot debate—why game anti-cheat systems are driving requirements, how tools like Rufus can help on older hardware, and the real risk of kernel-level hooks. Along the way, Andy shared a cautionary tale about flipping BIOS/UEFI settings, MBR vs.

We had some fun this week with the Tech Segment on News13 with Carsyn Currier even though a couple of mishaps made it even more fun. Live TV, What can you do! At least we take a step back in time as we explore the fun side of nostalgic technology! From rotary phones and corded handsets to cassette tapes and even classic floppy disks, old-school gadgets are making a comeback in surprising ways. I get to give a quick look at how the Cell2Jack device ($40) lets you connect your smartphone to a vintage rotary or corded phone via Bluetooth, so you can actually make and receive calls the old-fashioned way.