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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

No. You haven't. You've seen a bunch of far-right fascists who should be in The Hague calling themselves "Zionists" and it benefited you politically to allow them to define themselves that ahistorical, nonsensical way, so you did.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

I have no problem with anyone calling Likud fascist as well as war criminals. What I'm not going to do is play ball with them and let them use a dead movement to justify what they are doing now.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

Yes, I want Palestine to exist. And nothing I have ever said in 10 years on social media could have led even a single person to think otherwise. But thank you for making a presumption based on my name.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

There is exactly zero chance that this anonymous poster is going to be the first person ever to break out of that catch-22. And if *you* want to break them out, you can take their place and be the first person to provide an answer that is not genocide or war crimes.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

If you have followed the thread at all, which you clearly have not, my point is that 100% of the people who refuse to say how Israel could be ended in the short term without a genocide or war crimes are refusing to give an answer because they know that that answer would be "genocide or war crimes."

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

I disagree that it was before. I think it probably is as things stand right now. Which is exactly why all the war criminals need to be imprisoned, why Israel has to pay for the entire reconstruction of Gaza, why most of the new West Bank "settlers" need to be imprisoned and all need to be removed.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

This conflict is endangering the entire world, so at this point I would have very little problem with the entire world stepping in and forcing the parties to do whatever the entire world decides keeps the rest of the world safe. I feel like the alternative has had 80 years to be tried out already.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

You need me to write here for the hundredth time that I think Israel is committing a genocide against the Palestinians? Is it because I have a Jewish-sounding name that you cannot accept the first hundred times and need a 101st?

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

I have no idea what you are speaking of. I have repeatedly said Israel is committing a genocide right now so your decision to ignore me saying that pretty much guarantees that you are not here in good faith. I'm not here to be your emotional punching bag. Get bent.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

I'm only referring to this issue. I have no idea what I think of your thoughts on any other issue.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

I don't know what to tell you man. I just think you're a moron and reject everything you say. All of it's meaningless to me.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 4h

The entirety of international law—including every international convention—disagrees with you. But hey, you've outed yourself as a wannabe war criminal, so there's that. Have fun supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine without any international framework to call it wrong.

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Reposted by Seth Abramson

Joyce White Vance @joycewhitevance.bsky.social · 11h

Executing a search warrant while early voting is underway in Minnesota, on an old, moldy "crime" is all you need to know about the motivation here. Absolutely no reason not to wait until the second week of November. It's abundantly clear that this is about politics, not a legitimate prosecution.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

Wherever this first presser goes, it definitely won't come within hailing distance of "the rails" This person is a QAnonist lunatic

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

I love how for weeks major media was claiming it would "only" be $100 million. It was always going to be an exponent of that, and he is certainly not going to stop at $275 million. Continued corrupt Republican control of Washington is worth tens of billions to this monster. And maybe *hundreds*.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

By the same token, I decry the genocide of indigenous peoples by the early colonists, yet wouldn't support a movement to end the United States by killing every person in this country who isn't indigenous. If you consider that wildly obvious point to be confusing, it's only because you want it to be

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

I have said that those who want to make it part of their identity to participate in this discourse must say whether Israel will continue to exist or not—and if not, what means will accomplish that besides genocide and/or war crimes. And I'm telling you that they fail that test *100% of the time*.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

I have taken a consistent position against genocide. The genocide of indigenous peoples by Americans. The genocide Israel is currently waging against the Palestinians. And the genocide anyone who refuses to say how Israel could be peacefully ended clearly wants. I have no idea what your position is.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

Do you feel you're quoting what I said—or just creating your own paraphrase? I said we have 80 years of evidence to confirm that ending the State of Israel would require a genocide. I said that those who want to end the state of Israel have never outlined any path toward that except war or genocide.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

Within that framework it is still possible for Israel's borders to be disputed and adjusted, and I personally think that is desperately necessary because Netanyahu is committing a genocide and annexing land no definition of Israel could possibly warrant.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

We don't have to reinvent the wheel here. UN conventions exist to protect existing States from being unilaterally invaded. That doesn't mean there won't be border disputes that are handled politically, and it certainly doesn't justify any genocides. Ukraine exists—and will. Israel exists—and will.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

Fetishizing Hitler isn't a movement. You can't make it one by calling it one. It's simply a thing some fascists do because they're nostalgic for a time when it was even easier to commit a genocide. It has nothing to do with your argument, again to the extent I can recognize it as an argument at all.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

That's where I'm at. I believe Israel was unjustly created but can't now be ended without a new genocide. I oppose the genocide the Israeli regime is committing and want every one of them in prison—along with many West Bank settlers. I want a peaceful two-state solution and abhor *all* the radicals.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

Okay, he's simply hallucinating a false history and adopting far-right propaganda for no reason other than to justify a genocide or else to secure some sort of identity he already has or already can access without doing either of those odious things. If you prefer that reading, that's your business.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 6h

That does *not* mean that everything short of that is wrong, too. One could easily advocate for Israel's borders to be *substantially narrowed* through international political action and have an extremely strong moral and historical case to make. But it does require accepting that Israel will exist.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Good question. Fortunately, three wars and multiple intifadas have answered it. Conclusively. We now know for certain that Israel won't cease to exist unless much of the world gets together to kill every Israeli. So at this point, advocating for Israel not to exist is coextensive with that plan.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Okay. So you want to kill all the Israelis. Because that's what it would take for Israel to stop existing. So I need you to either say that that is what you want to see happen or explain what your alternative version of events is. You do not get to escape being a genocidalist through vague advocacy.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Exactly my point, Greg. We call people who live in Arizona and want Arizona to *continue existing* "citizens." We *judge* them by what they would be willing to do to keep Arizona existing. We do not come up with an ahistorical nickname to justify those Arizonans who are willing to commit genocide.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

100% false. Border disputes continue after a founding. The United States was born, then spent 200 years dealing with border disputes from Vermont to California, Alaska to the Rio Grande. The operative question is who wants America to continue existing and what they are willing to do to ensure that.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

I don't care what arguments genocidalists use to justify themselves. Letting them use the term Zionist rather than us distinguishing Israelis by those who want to commit genocide to preserve their nation and those who don't want to commit genocide to preserve their nation lets villains off the hook.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Yeah, there's no such thing as a movement with clearly defined aims that continues after those aims have been achieved irrevocably on the claim that the movement was about making sure a victory wasn't undone. Anyone who lives in a country and simply wants it to continue existing is just a "citizen."

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

And that is a tautology. A fallacy. You do not explain how it is possible for Zionism to have continued after 1948, you simply assume it did and then base your entire argument on that. Actually that's not even an argument. It's just fallacy.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Nonsensical. It is certainly true that Israel gradually got stronger from 1948 onward, and that people there continued to use a term that had once meant one thing to mean a different thing, but "Zionism" as a movement ended in 1948. You're simply saying those who call themselves that got stronger.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Kyle, Biden was wrong. But you are on my feed consistently arguing in bad faith by rage-baiting. If I see it one more time, you will be blocked.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Historically we call pieces of shit *anyone* who tries to destroy a state. Because it's a war crime. I say that's true with respect to both Palestine *and* Israel. You don't, which is why you're a radical. You're exactly the sort of person I am talking about. You want war/death but won't say it.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Racism isn't a movement. Learn how to make analogies.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

No, actually from a historical standpoint your example points in exactly the opposite direction. Nazism ended with Hitler, which is why the term neo-Nazism was created. And what infects the American government right now is neither but Trumpism, which is a form of fascism.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Actually, movements categorically end when their ambitions, if defined, are achieved. That was the case with the Roundheads, that was the case after the storming of the Bastille. History always makes clear that what comes next is an entirely new thing. Usually a corrupt one. But a different thing.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 7h

Because he's a radical, not a rationalist. As I explain in the thread.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 9h

Rabbi, the word is misused just as much by far-right Israeli nationalists. There was no reason to continue the use of the term once the aims of the movement were met in 1948 except to find a flag under whose banner unconscionable conduct could be excused. Netanyahu and his ilk misuse the term daily.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 9h

It means nothing. If you think it means something, you are choosing one nonsensical definition from among a group of nonsensical definitions. And that is a choice. You do not get to excuse yourself from the moral implications of choosing a nonsensical definition of a word with historical meaning.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 9h

So anyone writing in the Atlantic about how “Zionism” is used is wasting their time—because at this point *every* usage of it is cynical, disingenuous, and even dangerous. That’s as true for the far-right Israeli nationalists misusing it now as it is for the antisemites who engage in the same scam.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 10h

None of this means that what was done in the past was rightly done—it wasn’t. But it does mean that war after war after war after intifada after intifada after intifada was fought in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, 2010s and 2020s to confirm that what was done can’t be *undone*.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 10h

The only people whose ideas actually matter now—to the extent there’s any ongoing debate that can matter—are those who want Israel ended or preserved *and* have a plan for that that doesn’t involve mass bloodshed of a discrete group (or any group). That leaves the two-staters and maybe no one else.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 10h

So if you say you want Israel preserved by annexing Gaza and the West Bank, you’ve no place in civil discourse now—as you’re a genocidalist, bigot, and war criminal. And if you say you want Israel ended by force, you’ve no place in civil discourse—as you’re a genocidalist, bigot, and war criminal.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 10h

I’d end use of the word “Zionism” (as again, it’s nonsensical in 2026) and force everyone in the debate to say if they want Israel ended or preserved as a first step toward participation in the conversation. And how they want that achieved—*without any vague or nonsensical answers*—as a second step.

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Seth Abramson @sethabramson.bsky.social · 10h

The problem with this debate is that the far-right nationalists won’t admit that they want to genocide the Palestinians and the far-left antisemites won’t admit they want to genocide Israeli Jews—though the plans each have *require* those outcomes. Misuse of the word “Zionism” hides their sickness.

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