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Morality is to help workers realize the injustice of the system, and give them a reason to act to change it. I never claimed that capitalism cares about morality. The point is it is the only way for people's goals to align in the way necessary to change anything.

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Without morality, there is no reason to change anything.

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Genetic fallacy. You can't know that without reading the article.

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I don't dispute what you're saying about historical liberals. My point is that capitalism is so bad that even liberalism can't provide a coherent defense of it. If we apply liberal principles consistently, we reach anti-capitalist conclusions. Liberal's "defense" of capitalism requires inconsistency

The only legally-recognized right is to sell their labor-power. From a moral point of view, workers have a right to appropriate the fruits of their labor. That is what the article argues. Did you read the article?

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Liberalism isn't necessarily capitalist. The dominant tendency of liberalism has historically been pro-capitalist, but there is nothing about liberal principles that entails capitalism. There are strong arguments from liberal principles to anti-capitalist conclusions.

I'm not talking about David Ellerman. I'm talking about his argument in that article that establishes that capitalism violates workers' inalienable rights.

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What about his argument do you think is wrong?

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What MIT professor? I shared a particular argument. I did not intend to make an appeal to authority fallacy. My intent has always been to engage with specific arguments.

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This doesn't mean we can't democratize the economy, or use non-market mechanisms for some parts of the economy. Markets are a tool and have some legitimate uses. Abandoning this tool would require sacrificing important goals.

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There are other socialists like Proudhon that were less oppositional with markets and money. The arguments modern socialists make is that abolishing markets completely isn't possible without resorting to primitivism because prices help with aggregating info in a complex tech-based society.

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It can be a result of a belief that markets and money are sometimes useful even after capitalism is abolished.

Consistent pro-democracy liberalism would be anti-capitalist

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Liberalism is decaying because it failed to complete the work of democratizing in the economy. This created a faction that seeks to remake the government in the non-democratic image of capitalism. There are still structural flaws within liberalism that made this instability possible.

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capitalist as chief, and work-people without a voice in the management, but the association of the labourers themselves on terms of equality, collectively owning the capital with which they carry on their operations, and working under managers elected and removable by themselves." --John Stuart Mill

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Capitalism isn't the best system for commerce as it violates workers' inalienable rights. Even Mill was able to see this to a limited extent: "The form of association, however, which if mankind continue to improve, must be expected in the end to predominate, is not that which can exist between a

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What about privatizing to worker co-ops? It's extreme hyperbole and false equivalence to equate privatizing broadly with Nazism.

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There is unfortunately a tradition of anti-democratic liberalism (consent of the governed to a non-democratic government). Democracy is the only coherent liberalism, but some liberals see the non-democratic structure of the firm under capitalism and want to remake the entire society in its image.

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There is a lot of bad faith discourse that prevents productive engagement with ideas. The incentives of social media apps don't help with this.

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That's a broad summary. There are examples within the tradition that are in favor of abolishing capitalism. Some historical examples: Thomas Hodgskin and Anton Menger Contemporary examples: E. Glen Weyl (collective ownership) and David Ellerman (workers' self-management)

Economic theory vs property rights realities

Capitalism in Economic Theory

Capital: I get the part of the product my capital contributes.
Labor: I get the part of the product I contribute.

Capitalism's property rights in reality

Employer: I get 100% ownership of the whole product (Q, -K, -L)

Labor: I have 0% claim on the whole product.

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I'm in favor of abolishing capitalism. I'm just pointing out there have been liberals that wanted to abolish capitalism.

davidellerman.substack.com

David Ellerman has a much simpler argument against capitalism than Richard Wolff: davidellerman.substack.com/p/labor-and-...

Labor and Inalienable Rights

Towards a better understanding of the economy we live in

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Liberal socialism - Wikipedia

Liberalism can be leftist. There are anti-capitalist liberals. Some forms of liberalism are mainstream within the Democratic Party sure, but anti-capitalist liberalism isn't. Example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal...

en.wikipedia.org

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Wage theft is estimated to be the biggest form of theft in America.

The biggest form of theft in America

It's shocking how this problem is so under-emphasized. Makes you wonder: could this issue be a symptom of deeper systemic issues? youtube.com/shorts/5FGyj...

youtube.com

YouTube video by Inalienist

The latter. Basing liberalism on Hegel lays the groundwork for more liberalism and socialism fusion.

Inalienable Rights: Part II Intellectual History

Hegel had an argument for inalienable right to workplace democracy although he tried to avoid the implication. Hobbes supported non-democratic government, and Locke support lifetime servitude contracts by calling them drudgery. Source: www.ellerman.org/inalienable-...

ellerman.org

Where did the ideas behind the inalienable rights theory emerge in the history of thought?

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Global trade being a unifying force is underappreciated. That's partly why nationalists like Trump seek to undermine this global interconnection with tariffs. It's worth noting that capitalism isn't the only or even the best way to do that. We could have a more democratic economy that also has that

In These Times @handle.invalid · 11/09/2026

Reposted by Inalienist

Trump’s domestic terrorism directive, NSPM-7, links “anti-capitalism” and “anti-Christianity” to political violence. Tina Al-khersan and Azadeh Shahshahani examine its roots in 25 years of post-9/11 policing. #september11 inthesetimes.com/article/war-...

inthesetimes.com

How The War on Terror Continues To Terrorize Communities 25 Years Later

Twenty five years after the 9/11 attacks and the launch of the Global War on Terror, the U.S government continues to expand its tools of repression to further crush dissent.

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What do you mean? The argument is that employment is a form of theft because it violates the private property's moral basis in a just social order.

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Being harmed by damage to your property depends on a prior analysis of what is your property. What the state says isn't a good analysis because the state is one of the parties that can steal from you by upholding fraudulent contracts etc.

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You saying you don't feel like it isn't a good argument against it. Furthermore, if you were to investigate what makes property rights legitimate, you'd come away whatever the state's says goes account lacking. People always prefer more. Property rights establish what actually belongs to them.

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Evan Roberts @evanrobertsnz.bsky.social · 10/09/2026

Trying to be philosophically coherent isn't equivalent to Nazism. Nazism is a bad and evil theory that depends on a bunch of incorrect and incoherent premises. The claim is that workers' right to appropriate the fruits of their labor is one that I prefer be respected. I provided a reason for this.

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Reposted by Inalienist

Pigouvian taxes while you're driving, land value taxes when you're parking

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The biggest form of theft... - @inalienist | Loops.video

It doesn't even live up to that requirement. Wage theft is one of the biggest forms of theft: loops.video/v/fozO-PC_V3

loops.video

The biggest form of... • 5 likes • 3 comments

Mainstream economists somehow manage to unfortunately. Of course, they mostly study idealized models though.

nickforbrains 🏳️‍🌈 @nickforbrains.bsky.social · 11/09/2026

Reposted by Inalienist

I think it’s funny that Rs think we should have warm fuzzies about “capitalism” and we should also be terrified of “socialism.” They can’t define either term and we’re supposed to have an emotional response? Ridiculous.

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Reposted by Inalienist

felicity of images @carc.bsky.social · 10/09/2026

Utopia governed by utilitarian robot where people hack their pain and pleasure centers in an arms race to make themselves more and more into utility monsters so resources are distributed to them and not their enemies

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Just to be clear, I mean give investors the same return as someone with voting shares would get not same return to capital as to labor. That would depend on the productivity of labor vs capital. Providing the same return allows workers to attract investors.

By paying the investors the same amount

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I have a thought experiment that refutes utilitarianism

Overcoming Bias is the worst. There are some pro-slavery arguments on there.

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