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How US right-wing podcasters shape pro-Russia, anti-Ukraine sentiments
Listening to right-leaning alternative media in the U.S., one might come away with the impression — albeit without evidence — that Ukraine is irredeemably corrupt, President Volodymyr Zelensky is a dictator, and Russia’s invasion was somehow justified. On a December episode of comedian Tim Dillon’s podcast, podcaster Joe Rogan asserted that “most people don’t even know about the coup in 2014 in Ukraine,” echoing a Russian talking point that casts the country’s revolution against a pro-Russian corrupt regime in 2013-2014 as a U.S.-backed plot. “Most people don’t know that the president of the Ukraine right now, Zelensky, played the president on a television show — a comedy show. And the premise of the comedy show was that a comedian becomes the president,” Dillon added. While true in part, Dillon misrepresented Zelensky ’s role in “Servant of the People,” where he played a schoolteacher turned president, not a comedian. Dillon’s use of “the Ukraine,” a linguistic relic of Soviet-era dominance, underscored how even casual conversations can echo geopolitical biases. After the onset of Russia’s full-scale war in 2022, negative and misleading narratives about Ukraine have gained momentum in right-leaning U.S. alternative media. As traditional news consumption reaches historic lows, a new frontier of media consumption has taken the lead. Right-wing alternative media has been particularly successful in the U.S. because “it fills a void that mainstream media left open. It offers a clear, emotionally compelling, and often conspiratorial narrative that gives its audience easy explanations for complex problems,” David Pakman, an American talk show host and progressive political commentator, told the Kyiv Independent. “Progressive media is up against a serious disadvantage which is that the truth is often way less exciting than a lie.” During his 2024 election campaign, U.S. President Donald Trump aggressively courted influential right-leaning podcast hosts, harnessing their reach to millions of listeners for his political benefit. Some of these media figures — including Rogan, Tucker Carlson, Patrick Bet-David, and Lex Fridman — have also repeatedly amplified Russian narratives about Ukraine. With the U.S. suspending military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine in early March and the Trump administration’s intensifying attacks on Zelensky, policy debates in the U.S. over the war and Ukraine’s future appear to be shaped less by experts and more by Russian propaganda narratives, amplified by U.S. right-wing podcasters. More ‘authentic’ but not factual Rogan’s podcast, with over 19 million YouTube subscribers and a consistent hold on the top of the charts, dominates the alternative media sphere in the U.S. What began as a casual hangout for comedians has evolved over the past 16 years into a platform featuring high-profile guests like Silicon Valley tech moguls and presidential candidates. While he positions himself as “an American first” — appearing to imply that patriotism is separate from political party allegiance — Rogan has, in recent years, slowly embraced right-wing talking points. Rogan officially endorsed Trump during the 2024 presidential election and declared, “Why would anyone be against (his desire to make America first)?” in a recent episode with businessman Marc Andreessen. “There's always been a very strong isolationist, ‘America First’ constituency in the U.S. You will always be able to sell commercial media programming by waving the flag and asking why foreign aid is being sent abroad rather than paying for local or state needs,” Professor Michael Socolow, an American media historian, told the Kyiv Independent. “(President Franklin D.) Roosevelt had to fight (isolationism) when trying to stop the Nazis before the Japanese bombed America into World War II. It seems like the anti-Ukraine discourse has blended into this traditional American political faction." Rogan has also voiced strong opposition to U.S. aid to Ukraine. In one episode, while talking to record producer and songwriter Scott Storch, Rogan condemned then-U.S. President Joe Biden's authorization of Ukrainian strikes on Russian soil with American weapons, unleashing expletives aimed at Zelensky. “How are you allowed to do that when you are on your way out? Like people don’t want you to be there anymore, maybe that would be a good thing we would like to avoid from a dying former president. The whole thing is nuts,” Rogan said. "Zelensky says Putin is terrified. F**k you, man. You f**king people are about to start World War III.” U.S. podcaster Joe Rogan greets then-U.S. President-elect Donald Trump during the UFC 309 event at Madison Square Garden in New York, New York, U.S. on Nov. 16, 2024. (Jeff Bottari / Zuffa LLC) During the heated Feb. 28 meeting in Washington, Trump made a similar point when he warned Zelensky he was "gambling with World War III," suggesting that Ukraine’s resistance to Russian aggression was a greater threat to global stability than Russia's invasion itself. Rogan later revealed that he turned down Zelensky’s offer to appear on the podcast to share the Ukrainian perspective, offering little more than a casual dismissal during an episode with three other comedians: “Zelensky tried to come on. They tried to get Zelensky on. I was like, ‘What are you talking about?’” In the same episode where Rogan rejected the idea of interviewing Zelensky, fellow comedian Ari Shaffir casually mentioned that Former Fox News host and conspiracy theorist Tucker Carlson had told him that former U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson had “prevented” a 2022 peace deal — a Kremlin narrative that ignores the fact that Russia-Ukraine negotiations stalled shortly after the discovery of the Bucha massacre . Both Johnson and Zelensky have also denied the claim. “Where’s the evidence (of Johnson intervening)? What’s the context? Who are the sources? Doesn’t matter — once it’s said on a massive platform, it becomes the truth,” Pakman said. “And because these hosts are seen as more ‘authentic’ than traditional news anchors, their words carry weight, even when they're just speculating or repeating Kremlin talking points without realizing it.” Trump’s alignment with Russia derails Europe’s push for a peacekeeping force in Ukraine European countries have intensified talks on sending peacekeepers to Ukraine to monitor and enforce a possible ceasefire. But the potential deployment of European peacekeepers to Ukraine faces a lot of challenges and uncertainties. There is no unity among European countries on the issue, with some… The Kyiv Independent Oleg Sukhov Russia-friendly hosts, guests Some of the anti-Ukraine messaging pushed by Rogan and other alternative media personalities can often be traced back to their guests, some of whom not only repeat pro-Russian narratives but have also interacted directly with the Kremlin. Among them is U.S. filmmaker Oliver Stone, who conducted over a dozen interviews with Vladimir Putin during the two years of filming a documentary about the Russian leader. Stone’s other documentary, “Ukraine on Fire,” depicts the 2013-2014 EuroMaidan Revolution (or Revolution of Dignity) as “the Maidan Massacre” that resulted in the overthrow of then-President Viktor Yanukovych rather than a democratic uprising against Yanukovych’s push to develop closer ties with Russia over the EU. In a 2022 interview with podcaster Lex Fridman, whose YouTube channel has nearly five million subscribers, Stone dismissed those who said that Putin was a “madman” for his invasion of Ukraine. “What people don’t understand,” Stone argued, “is that Ukraine has been a terrorist state since 2014” – another Kremlin talking point that has nothing to do with reality. Tech billionaire Elon Musk, who has appeared on Rogan and Fridman’s podcasts, has used X, formerly known as Twitter, to repeatedly amplify Russian talking points. He has also referred to the EuroMaidan Revolution as a coup and called for Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula – occupied by Russia since 2014 – to remain with Russia, which garnered him praise from former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. Carlson, who has also interviewed Putin as well as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, has been a guest on a number of these shows or featured some of the hosts on his own show. Russia's President Vladimir Putin gives an interview to US talk show host Tucker Carlson at the Kremlin, Moscow, Russia on Feb. 6, 2024. (Gavriil Grigorov / POOL / AFP via Getty Images) “I do feel for Zelensky, I do…I think Zelensky’s been completely misused by the State Department…by the policy makers in the U.S. who have used Ukraine as a vessel for their geopolitical ambitions,” Carlson told Fridman shortly after his interview with Putin, reinforcing the narrative that Ukraine’s push for independence is not truly its own. Additionally, Carlson has repeatedly claimed — without evidence — that Ukraine is selling U.S.-supplied weapons on the black market, including to Mexican drug cartels. Fellow right-wing commentator Richard Hanania privately asked Carlson for proof behind his claim, to which Carlson responded with a slew of personal insults, Hanania revealed in a March 2 post on X. When pressed on Carlson’s pro-Russia rhetoric in an interview with Piers Morgan in early February, Zelensky didn’t mince words: “He needs to stop working for Putin, to stop kissing his ass, honestly.” In addition to those who have traveled to Moscow for sit-downs with Putin, some podcasters have also been accused of receiving money directly from the Kremlin. In September 2024, the U.S. Justice Department alleged that several right-wing podcasters, including Tim Pool and Dave Rubin, were linked to Tenet Media, a company serving as a Russian intelligence services fronta front for Russian intelligence ser after Russia Today’s reach was restricted. The podcasters were allegedly unaware of the company’s ties to Russia and denied that the Kremlin had any influence over their work. However, some of them continue to push anti-Ukraine talking points to this day. “I f**king despise these smarmy hypocrites defending Ukraine and Zelensky,” Pool wrote on X on March 4. “Ukraine has given us NOTHING. There is no reason to be involved in this war.” Why doesn’t Zelensky wear a suit? When President Volodymyr Zelensky arrived at the White House on Feb. 28 to discuss ending the war that had inflicted tremendous tragedy on his country since its escalation in 2022, he was asked a question he likely least expected to hear at such a critical moment. “Why don’t you wear The Kyiv Independent Daria Shulzhenko Growing influence Given these alternative media figures’ ties to Trump’s political orbit, Zelensky has attempted to navigate — and capitalize on — this alternative media landscape to his country’s benefit. While Zelensky didn’t appear on Rogan’s podcast and talks of an interview with Carlson never materialized, he sat down in January for a nearly three-hour conversation with Fridman . During the discussion, Zelensky fervently detailed Ukraine’s struggles in an existential war and why negotiating with Putin isn’t as straightforward as some suggest. While Fridman has publicly praised Zelensky as a hero, likening him to Winston Churchill, he steered their conversation in a different direction during the interview by speaking of the need for compromises and even to forgive Putin, prompting Zelensky to reply that the compromise was that Putin will likely never face the prison sentence he deserves — but forgiveness, after everything, is out of the question. Following the interview, Fridman said on Rogan’s podcast that he intends to travel to Moscow for an interview with Putin . Some other Ukrainian political figures, for personal gain, have also attempted to exploit the opportunities presented by this right-wing alternative media landscape. Moscow-born U.S. podcaster Lex Fridman during his interview with President Volodymyr Zelensky in a video posted on Jan.5, 2024. (Lex Fridman / YouTube) At the end of December, Oleksiy Arestovych , a controversial former adviser to the President’s Office, made an appearance on Iranian-American entrepreneur Patrick Bet-David’s podcast. Bet-David hosted Trump and several of his immediate family members on his show during the presidential election. Arestovych cast himself to Bet-David’s audience as a “phenomenally popular” figure forced to leave Ukraine at the warning of an unnamed U.S. official but resolute in his ambition to return when conditions permitted. Arestovych is known for exaggerating and even lying about his role in wartime Ukraine. None of Arestovych’s statements were challenged by Bet-David during the three-hour-long interview — every claim was presented and, in turn, accepted as fact. “There are very few critical or antagonistic interviewers on podcasts,” Socolow explained. “That's how Trump used them so effectively during the campaign, for example. He knew he would be treated nicely, and that made it easier to promote his anti-Ukraine (and supposedly ‘pro-America’) messages.” Amid declining U.S. popular support for Ukraine, Arestovych also sought to undermine confidence in Zelensky's leadership both domestically and internationally with provocative statements like “I trust Putin more than Zelensky.” Bet-David, known for frequently discussing alongside his co-hosts how Ukraine is “totally corrupt,” then pressed Arestovych to answer whether Zelensky had profited financially from the war. “This is a very important question for you to answer,” Bet-David said. “If you answer it, in a way, it’s catastrophic for (Zelensky). Do you know the answer, whether money ended up flowing to him through shell accounts or other people?” Former President's Office advisor Oleksiy Arestovych at a forum in Kyiv on Dec. 11, 2020. (Evgen Kotenko/ Ukrinform/Future Publishing via Getty Images) “I do not have information that he received money from corruption scandals. But I can tell you for sure that the level of corruption is off the charts. It’s catastrophic,” Arestovych replied vaguely, adding that “at a minimum, it benefits the people who are surrounding (Zelensky).” Bet-David has increasingly pushed anti-Ukraine rhetoric through conversations with a number of guests that have no apparent expertise on the issue. In a March 4 interview, men's rights activist and alleged human trafficker Andrew Tate joined Bet-David in accusing Zelensky of the “audacity” of "disrespecting" Trump during his White House visit . Bet-David and Tate also implied that Zelensky is somehow prolonging the war out of personal interests, despite the Kremlin saying publicly that they have yet to achieve their objectives in Ukraine — namely, the destruction of Ukrainian statehood. Polls show that right-wing alternative media’s anti-Ukraine rhetoric has resonated among a significant percentage of the American public. As the full-scale war entered its fourth year, that lack of support could prove deadly. Pew Research published a poll in November that showed 43% of Republicans believed that the U.S. was providing too much aid to Ukraine, and only 36% said the country had a responsibility to help defend Ukraine. Likewise, a Gallup poll from December showed that 50% of Americans believe in the need for a swift end to the war even if it means Ukraine doesn’t recover all of its territory under Russian occupation. “What appears to be happening is that the fringe media is influencing the more-established and respectable conservative media mindset,” Socolow said. “And this is shaping anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin rhetoric that's becoming more influential." Note from the author: Thanks for reading this article. As an American who has lived for a long time in Ukraine, it’s important for me to call out those back in my birth country who are spreading harmful disinformation about the country that holds a special place in my heart. During wartime, it is even more important to get facts straight. If you like reading this sort of thing, please consider becoming a member of the Kyiv Independent .
