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I didn't see Juniper say that, must have missed it.

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The US is a settler colonial state that was founded on genocide and is currently funding another one. An American saying "there are no innocent Israelis", while excusing the ways they themselves as an American perpetuate genocide is just American Exceptionalism with leftist characteristics.

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Does that count as a "mandatory" choice or a "coerced" one?

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I assumed you were defending the claim in the screenshot that "there is no innocent Israeli". If you aren't defending that claim, then I apologize for misinterpreting your position.

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Look at yourself. You're saying there are degrees of complicity, some of which are acceptable. That's in direct contradiction to the claim in the screenshot that "there is no innocent Israeli".

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Not at all, I'm saying more people should be following the example of those who refuse to be complicit. You're the one making excuses for Americans who choose to be complicit in genocide.

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Yeah, and all adult Americans are subject to paying taxes. One Israeli refusing to serve isn't going to cripple the IDF. But they do it anyway because they don't want to be complicit.

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Complicity is complicity. Are you saying an Israeli who serves in an office management job for the IDF where there only role is buying office supplies is less complicit than someone with an active combat role?

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He made some non sequitor about forced harmonica lessons that makes no sense.

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And if one Israeli refuses to serve, they will just find another Israeli willing to serve. The question is to what extent is one willing to be complicit.

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Sure it is. Israelis have the choice to serve in a genocidal army or go to jail. Americans have the choice to fund that genocidal army or go to jail.

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Non sequitor. The discussion was to what extent are Americans and Israelis complicit in the ways they support genocide. Your claim was that any level of complicity is unacceptable.

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Are you saying it's okay to choose to continue funding genocide?

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Okay. By that logic, there is no such thing as "mandatory" taxes in the US. You can choose to stop paying taxes to the government that funds genocide. You can choose jail, and that's better than funding a genocide.

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buddythebird @bthebird.bsky.social · 6h

Is any America who continues to pay taxes to their government also a zionist?

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The people paying taxes to a government funding genocide also have a choice. Does their choice to continue paying taxes make them nazis?

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buddythebird @bthebird.bsky.social · 6h

If you paid taxes to a government funding the genocide, what does that make you?

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Not really. He was pretty explicitly in his stated commitment. Either he was soeaking from ignorance, or explicitly lying.

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Hebm was pretty explicit in his statement. He said if he were elected Mayorz, then he would arrest Netanyahu.

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I agree with that. These groups are unhinge. But then Mamdani model that people keep encouraging other dems to follow does technically seem to include an element of "tell the unhinged grouops what they want to hear, and then when you win, just don't follow through with those promises".

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As a rule, I generally think its good for the people to good their politicians to account when they backtrack on their commitments. I'm just pointing out that Mamdani did make promises to these people who are protesting him, and then not following through on those commitments.

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But that's my point. He was willing to play ball with them during the election. He said if he was elected mayor that he would arrest Netanyahu, which was an insane thing to say given he would have no legal basis to do so. I don't agree with this people, but I can see how they feel betrayed.

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Nah, he deserves this. Mamdani played into the "anti-establishment" narrative when he thought it would benefit him. He told these people he was their guy. They're just upset that he apparently lied about that.

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Until there is a general strike, we should all be organizing for one.

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A general strike would be more effective.

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Yeah, if that's all people are willing to do, that's why I'm cynical. A financial boycott of certain companies is good (and requires very little personal sacrifice), but it's a far cry from a tax strike or a general strike.

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buddythebird @bthebird.bsky.social · 23h

I'm hopeful that there is actually something that could be done to create positive change. I am cynical in that I don't know if there are enough people who will be willing to actually do what it takes, if it's going to be uncomfortable or require personal sacrifice on their part.

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Fetterman was the leftist preferred candidate! The liberals wanted Conor Lamb!

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buddythebird @bthebird.bsky.social · 23h

Cool. A general strike could be effective with as little as 3.5% of the population engaging. Surely at least 3.5% of the population consider genocide to be a red line and will stop paying taxes to, or supporting the economy of, a government committing genocide.

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My plan was to utilize the Dems as a way to prevent the Magas from gaining power. That wasn't a plan you were willing to support. The midterms gives us another chance. If that fails, then we the people will need to do something. Mass civil disobedience, like a general strike.

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That's why I'm asking what your plan is if they don't change. Just allow the Magas to consolidate more and more power? And then what?

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That still doesn't describe how you plan to change the Dems, and what you plan to do if they refuse to change.

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I don't out much stock in those statements. Israel has a reputation for attempting psyops.

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"Everything changes" isn't very descriptive.

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Probably a number of reasons. My guess would be the primary reason is that he overestimated his ability to influence Netanyahu.

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Okay, so let's say the Dems are incapable of changing. What's the plan in that case?

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Hamas violating the rights of Palestinians doesn't justify Israel killing Palestinians. Zelenksy violating the rights of Ukrainians doesn't justify Russia killing Ukrainians. Criticism of one actor isn't inherently justification of their opposition.

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I can see the logic behind that. I am not confident if she had simply said the word "genocide" that it would have swayed many. I suspect the goalposts would have been moved, similarly to how they were moved when the January ceasefire was agreed to.

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Trump achieved your goal of ending USAID, did he not?

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Harris using certain words rather than others would have lessened Israel's ability to kill Palestinians? How so?

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That doesn't really answer the question you responded to.

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Yes, but "the US freaked out about XYZ in the past" has nothing to do with my argument. It's a whatboutism.

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More recently than Hamas, by far. But I personally think it's a negative mark against Zelensky that he has suspended elections, yes.

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USAID is virtually eliminated. You can thank Trump and Musk for that.

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Oh, I see. Well thank you for acknowledging that you were ministerpreting my position, I guess.

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You tell me. What did you mean by the left using harm reduction/lesser evilism as a defense? bsky.app/profile/boud...

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Yes, I agree the left engages in hypocrisy around harm reduction.

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